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How many spaces after a full stop

edited January 2011 in - Writing Problems
I just read a piece about someone ranting about how there should always be one space after a full stop and not two. I have always put two spaces after a full stop, but according to this person and those who agree with them, the 2 spaces hark back to the days of typewriters. When I started writing it was typewriters we used - showing my age now.

Would be interested in anyone's POV as I am starting to think that I am a dinosaur who has been getting it wrong all these years.
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Comments

  • I only use one space after a full stop, or a comma. See.
  • When I did my word processing exam a few years back, you got marked down for using only one space. I always use two spaces but I have seen guidelines from a magazine (can't remember which one) that stipulates only once space.
  • I use two if I'm typing a letter etc. Magazines normally format it to one space. Doesn't matter how many spaces you type on here, Webbo and Willy only let you have one.
  • edited January 2011
    Jen when I was doing my RSA wordprocessing, I was told to 'fully block' everything, i.e leave two spaces after a full stop. I did then., but never do it now. I don't think some people even know about this, so I wouldn't let it worry you too much. JUst pick one or the other and be consistent
  • I always put two but then I started off my typing training on a typewriter many years ago.
  • RedRed
    edited January 2011
    I was taught on a typewriter too. But on the whole it is full stop, then the two spaces, exactly as we were taught.

    Conventionally this is required by most publishing houses in the UK, and some agents can be soooo picky, although you may want to check with the targeted publisher for their preferred guidelines, as some UK magazines and American markets prefer single spaces. There may be ones in Europe that differ too, so it's always best to check out the in-house submission guidelines.

    I did two RSA's, and it's two, never one. If sending your MSS, I can't shout loud enough about this: Presentation, presentation, presentation.
  • [quote=Red]it is two spaces, then the full stop[/quote]

    Red, don't you mean the full stop, then two spaces?
  • I just use one space.
  • Yeah sorry. Quite right. Migraine is making me speak rubbish!
  • ooooooooooooh, NASTY. taKE OYUR PILLS AND GO TO SLEEP (sorry didn't mean to 'shout'. I hate the caps lock key!
  • Yes miss! It's a good night's sleep that's needed...
  • Go on then, be kind to yourself. I really do HATE that caps lock key. I wish you had to press shift at the same time like on a typewriter, then I wouldn't stray into upper cases so often. I've never been taught to type properly, you see....................:(
  • From your comments it seems that it's an age thing. Older writers use two spaces and younger ones use one. I'll keep using two spaces because none of the eds I've written for have said otherwise.

    Red, have you tried Feverfew? My boyfriend has stonking migraines and has started using it in a supplement to see if it helps. For meds his GP gave him Immigran, which is only effective when he takes it before the migraine takes hold.

    Hope your feeling better soon.
  • Well from a point of view of getting your MSS right for Mr or Mrs Agent, two is better than one. Why? Because there is nothing worse than for an agent going goggle eyed trying to read single spaces instead of two spaces after the full stop, especially of he or she is reading 50 or so pages of your masterpiece.

    Thanks for the concern about the migraine, Jenthom. Had them since I was 13, I use a mixture of pills that sometimes work, and sometimes don't, but maybe I shall try Feverfew and see.
  • Did Hemingway ever worry about this? Or G.B. Shaw, Mark Twain, Agatha Christie.... :-)
  • Recently- the last six months-I think- I saw a submission guideline for a small publisher that actually stated two spaces after the full stop.
    Otherwise I use one space.
  • [quote=Jany]Did Hemingway ever worry about this? Or G.B. Shaw, Mark Twain, Agatha Christie[/quote]

    No, because they all used typewriters.

    A computer is not a typewriter; this is the 21st century, one space only.
  • Two spaces. And, when I began typing 52 years ago, it was three spaces after a full stop. I did legal work for a good many years and that was the standard requirement.
  • I always put 2 spaces after a full stop and one after a comma
  • The practice of putting two spaces at the end of a sentence goes back to the days of typewriters with mono spaced typefaces. Two spaces, or even three in some cases, made it easier to see where one sentence ended and the next began.

    The typefaces on computers are proportionally spaced so this practice is no longer needed. Professional typesetters, designers, and desktop publishers use one space only.
  • I always use two spaces after a full stop, and I'm only 21 so I don't think it's an age thing. That's the way we were taught in admin back in high school so I guess I have it ingrained. We got marked down for a single space, even though we were of course doing admin on computers at that time.
  • THanks for clarifying that, kado. I looked carefully at the type in your entry and can see exactly what you mean.
  • When I was studying design and print at college, one of the assignments, in typesetting and page make-up, was to ‘set’ a concert programme. This was achieved by using an Apple Mac with Quark Xpress software. We were given the ‘Four Seasons’ by Vivaldi; it was all in Italian.

    One person on the course was a qualified typist; she was the first person to finish; unfortunately the lecturer down-marked her for double spacing after a full stop.

    I think it is a coincidence that this subject has been brought up, because I am planning to use it as a ‘thought piece’ at the writers’ group I attend. The age range is from teenagers to, what can I say, mature. It is going to be a lively debate and I just know I am going to be outnumbered.
  • [quote=Carol]I saw a submission guideline for a small publisher that actually stated two spaces after the full stop.[/quote] I'm surprised at that as the only time I've seen this mentioned, the editor asked for just the one. Does show that requirements vary and we should check the guidelines.
  • There's a magazine, can't remember which one but think it's one of WM/WN/WF, which seems to have less than a space between sentences. I find it quite hard to read sometimes.
  • [quote=kado]When I was studying design and print at college,[/quote]

    I was also given a 'distinction' and an outstanding achievement award, but I still know I will be shouted down at the writers' group.
  • Well I think you can safely say there is no definitive answer.

    Is a publisher or agent going to refuse a great book that has earning potential just because you use one or two spaces after a full stop?
    I wouldn't think so.
  • No definitive answer - BUT house-style for any given publication is the correct method for them. eg My Weekly insist on only one space after a full stop.
  • In the case of a magazine obviously you use what they use. :)
  • I think the confusion here is that when older writers were taught to type it was for letters and business use and not fiction or journalism. I think that was the case with the piece you read Jenny?
    We also submit electronically these days and our work is not copied as it used to be but pasted onto the editor's system so any extra spaces make a mess of their layout and have to be changed.

    These days I only use single space and am known to batter any of my students that double space.
  • Use what ever you want to use. Who are these people that make 'rules' ? If a publisher prefers a certain format then as that is their perogative one has to comply but otherwise do what suits you. It's like the people that make up PC idiocities and dictate what others should or should not do.
    As Scrooge said "Humbug" (and other rude words, to them)
  • I knew someone who not only double spaced after a full stop, but also hit the 'Enter' key when she came to the end of a line. She obviously did not know about automatic word wrap. When I gently pointed this out, I was confronted with, ‘I learned how to type long before you were even born!’
  • I know I've seen some magazines that specify not to use Tabs.
  • I know most publishers prefer two spaces after a full stop. It's easier on the eye apparently.
  • Interesting reading this thread. I use two... but then wonder when I see one used here and there... but I stick with two, as it seems the most common... unless requested otherwise, but I never have been... it's so confusing... my brain's starting to hurt... think I'm gonna write to God, or summat... the almighty should know... sh*t... when I write to God, do I use one of two...?
  • One space is normal.
  • I always put two spaces.
  • Then I'm abnormal, Stan. ;)
  • You said it!!
  • In case anyone cares what WM thinks :) , as many people have pointed out, feelings on this vary with age. Two spaces is definitely best form traditionally, but nowadays only a single one is perfectly acceptable.
    For printed documents, two is easier on the eye (hence agents and the RSA's insistence!), but as long as you are consistent it shouldn't matter too much. It never hurts to ask for official guidance on manuscript layout, but it's only really an issue once your manuscript has been accepted (assuming you're submitting on paper in the first instance, then electronically for publication. And to my mind it's a trifling five second task for an editor to find and replace " " with " ", but if they are fussy about it, respect their wishes.)
    For print publications, a single space is more common these days. We always use a single space after a full stop, but the visual size of it can vary, depending on kerning, justification, etc.

    [quote=Carol]I know I've seen some magazines that specify not to use Tabs.[/quote]
    I definitely agree here, Carol. Again, individual guidelines may vary, but I'd wager those magazines that don't outright specify "no tabs" still prefer subs without them!
  • edited January 2011
    [quote=Stan2]One space is normal. [/quote]


    that MUST include the one empty space inside my head between my ears then

    yippee - I'm normal . note, space before the full stop is the new trend, didn't any of YOU know that? Tsk




    [quote=kado]When I gently pointed this out, I was confronted with, ‘I learned how to type long before you were even born!’ [/quote]

    :)
  • Yes , Dora !

    [quote=Webbo]find and replace " " with " "[/quote]
    Well look at that. Talkback does it automatically!
  • I think that most of us are writing for print publications so it is always the one space.
    I will start to ask agents, when I attend their talks as to their preferred amount of spaces. I've never heard them ask for two spaces and I've spoken to many over the years. I was at the RNA talk this afternoon, should have asked then as the room was full of novelists.
  • And I expect you'd have the same diverse answers as here...:)
  • Itll be interesting to find out Carol!
  • Fascinating thread!
    I always put two spaces after a full stop. I can't stop myself - it's how I learned to touch-type and I can't break the habit. However - if I know an editor wants copy with one space I just do the 'find' and 'replace' thingy to get rid of all the double spaces - it's really very simple.
  • At the risk of ruffling the feathers of those wanting to do it "properly", I have to say that I somehow doubt that any publisher/agent would toss a story onto the slush pile if it was a cracking good read, just because there weren`t enough spaces behind the full stops.

    We`re alaways being told that they`re all looking for the next JKR, and things like spacing aren`t going to be such an issue at first reading. It can all be changed so easily electronically these days.

    As long as we stick to the crisp white paaper/black ink/ TNR/12 with margins, or the electronic equvalent, I think we`re in with a fighting chance over the people who send stuff in handwritten in green felt pen on loo paper.

    Don´t forget, lassies and lads, there are people reading this who have never ever sent anything in and who are riddled with self-douibt. They may be the next JKRs so let`s not put them off with nit-picking rules.
  • I think you're probably right there Jany
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