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'An old silly wench'

NefertariNefertari
edited February 2012 in Off-topic
I have been doing some family research this afternoon and looking at burials in West Hoathley Sussex.
One of my ancestors was Lucretia Harborow the entry for her burial in 1625 says 'an old silly wench' !

Comments

  • Phots MollPhots Moll
    She sounds fun - hope you're able to learn more about her.
  • NefertariNefertari
    I think she is my x7 great gran!
  • ClaudiaClaudia
    Ha ha! That's wonderful, kateyanne - I'd love to find a great gran like that! :)
    Do tell us if you find out more about her, won't you?
  • Baggy BooksBaggy Books
    Sounds like someone was jealous of her and had that inscriped for spite.

    You have to find out more!
  • LizyLizy
    Love it, Kateyanne - keep us posted :)
  • ana sana s
    That's brilliant, wouldn't you just love to meet her.
  • CarolCarol
    :)
    She sounds delightful.
  • cekaceka
    Sounds like a game gal to me! And with a name like 'Lucretia' - she could've been up for just about anything. Wonder if her mother was an admirer of the antics of her Italian namesake a hundred years earlier
  • NefertariNefertari
    I will try and find out more about her, but the records back then are a bit sparse.
  • St ForceSt Force
    :-)
  • Island GirlIsland Girl
    Hehehe, an old silly wench? That's classic.
  • LizLiz
    Sounds like the words of a misogynistic man. Every man, in those days perhaps.
  • NefertariNefertari
    I wonder if it meant she was not quite with it? Did silly spelt 'sillie' in the register mean that then?
  • LizLiz
    edited February 2012
    Actually, I find it hard to believe anyone would write that in such a place as an insult.

    Chambers says the obsolete meanings are:

    Simple, humble, pitiable, feeble.
  • LizLiz
    Oh dear, the obsolete of wench is... ahem, prostitute or whore...
  • NefertariNefertari
    What!
  • LizLiz
    Also obsolete, a child or a mistress. Don't think she can have been a child, as he mentions 'old'.
  • BetsieBetsie
    Lucretia Harborow - what a name. She has to be a character in your novel. Any idea where the name Harborow came from, is it still in your family?
  • NefertariNefertari
    I'm not sure where it comes from exactly. My gran was Mary Harber but the further back it goes it changes to Harbrow or Harbrough sometimes Arborough. I have a cousin Michael Harber and he also does our family tree research so we compare notes.
  • CarolCarol
    [quote=Liz!]Actually, I find it hard to believe anyone would write that in such a place as an insult.[/quote]

    Liz, it is surprising the comments the parson or clerk added alongside entries into some parish registers. My husband found one in a Welsh parish register (on microfilm via the nearby LDS centre) and there was one individual who really annoyed the vicar, and he put his nib through the paper at one point...
  • RedRed
    It may not be as bad as it seems. From the 14th century onward, Old and Middle English 'sillie' meant a foolish, dim-witted kind of person, and wench was a descriptive form of address for women, along the lines of what modern kids now might say 'girlie' or 'bird', and not a derogatory term.

    The term 'wench' is still used in the area where I live, and is a term of endearment. It is not associated in any way with being a bad woman, a whore or anything else. A wench simply means a woman.
  • LizLiz
    It means woman here as well, but it's not used. Although for some reason it seems to me to mean young and buxom - you'd call a barmaid a 'wench' but not a novice nun (however buxom).

    Shakespeare called people who were not prostitutes 'wench'. But Chambers is quite sure... it might be that in between 'time immemorial' and now it has gone through various changes and shades of meaning, like all words.

    It'd be interesting to contact a historian and see if they can understand exactly what whoever wrote it was saying!
  • kadokado
    [quote=Red]The term 'wench' is still used in the area where I live, and is a term of endearment. It is not associated in any way with being a bad woman, a whore or anything else. A wench simply means a woman.
    [/quote]

    I agree with what you say, Red.
  • Lou TreleavenLou Treleaven
    Could this spark a new a poem, kateyanne?
  • NefertariNefertari
    Well I am pleased the word wench means that and also sillie is not so bad then, thanks Red.
    You never know it may spark a new poem, Lou!
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