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Using real places as settings

I noticed a thread on here a few days ago about using names of real places and whether or not they were copyrighted and that got me thinking.

My novel is set in and around York and I have used real places for the events that happen in it. My main character works in a fictional office on Stonegate, but I have set this above real shops that exist there. I'm not sure that will cause a problem, but I have also used a bookshop, name changed and type of books sold there changed but same location as an actual bookshop, where an incident occurs in the owners flat above the shop and I'm now thinking that might cause problems. Not too hard to change and disguise this one, but I've also used a real church in a village just outside York and some very significant events take place there. One is an attack on a vicar and another at the end of the book where my hero is chained and tortured (not graphically) and a black magic ritual is performed (again not described but the intention is there).

I have used the name of the church and a detailed description of it and the name of the village where it is located. If I'm setting it in an actual place I can't really change the name of the village. I would be willing to change the name of the church but anyone looking for it would know which one it was and I also plan on writing a companion to the novel detailing the real places where the book takes place, in the same vein as the Da Vinci Code companion type stuff.

In another novel I have planned, I intend to use the London Coliseum Theatre as the setting and in the beginning of the story it burns down and is then bought by a character, restored and re-opened as a theatre and the plot takes place within it. Obviously this never happened, so is it going to be a problem?

Having mentioned the Da Vinci Code, we all know Dan brown used real places and fictional events, including the Vatican, so is there any real problem as long as the usual disclaimer is put in place i.e. all events and people are fictitious etc?

Sorry for the long post.

Comments

  • Setting a novel around a real place and mentioning actual places wouldn't be an issue generally, but more sensitive if a story is actually set among them.

    Are there actual offices above those real shops? A reader could think that your event WAS actually based on something that happened there...

    Likewise the Church isn't going to be happy to be with their vicar being attacked (even fictionally) and torture and black magic in any way associated with their church and grounds however fictional. And I'm sure the legal department of any publisher would point this out.

    If you call your theatre something else- not it's real name as you were intending- then you can burn it down and restore it without an issue, but you really can't do it when it's history is well known- and the history of most London theatres is well known and documented.
  • Blackfeather, a year or so ago Sony used a real church as background for one of their more lurid video games, and there was a huge outcry, from the church staff and also from the Church authorities. Not a good idea. Definitely go for fictitious surroundings here.
  • I decided I'd go off and check out what one of my fave authors does about this very thing. Phil Rickman. He writes a series of books about a deliverance minister called merrily watkins all set in Hereford and surrounding area, they cover very dark issues, possession, black magic etc etc and all of his novels in use real places, including churches. He puts a disclaimer in the front of the book and at the back there is usually a few pages about the research he has used and the places involved so it's not as big a problem as it seems. He also talks to the people in the area, though he jokes that he avoids talking to the Bishop of Hereford as the Cathedral is one of the places he uses a lot.

    There are lots of books which use real places and fictional events that don't seem to have a problem as long as they use the disclaimer. Phil Rickman, Dan Brown, Charles De Lint, to name just a few. I'll do a bit more research on the issue and see what I can find.
  • I have emailed Phil Rickman directly to see what his advice is. Will let you know if and when he replies.
  • I've set my novel in 'real' locations. I have kept it general rather than specific but I think it helps to give your setting credibility.
  • I think we need to remember that published writers can get away with a lot more than unpublished writers.
  • It's not so much the places as the people and businesses. If you use a real church, it'll have a real vicar and he might not like the things you're writing about 'him'. If what you say about a real (even with name changed) bookshop could be seen as giving a negative impression of those businesses or the staff there then you might be in trouble.
  • Here is my reply from Phil Rickman

    Essentially you don't need permission... but there are risks.


    You can't libel towns or buildings, but you can libel people. And if - for example - you have a predatory paedophile living above an actual bookshop and, as a result, the people living in that flat are the victims of public abuse, you're going to need either a good lawyer or a lot of money (which basically amounts to the same thing)


    I was a bit worried when I had various members of Herefordshire Council proving to be bent or, in one case, hiring a hit man. I was very careful go through the list of councillors to make sure nobody had a similar name and to invent a regional quango. You need to be able to show, in court if necessary, that you went to great lengths to ensure you didn't implicate real people.


    Of course, you still get accused of portraying real people. When I wrote The Chalice, set in Glastonbury, I knew hardly anybody there. But when I went back to sign some books, several people were saying, Oh yes, we all know who he is...


    That's it, really. Be careful out there...


    Good luck,
    Phil
  • A succinct analysis, and great he replied so quickly.
  • yeah, I was surprised. I've always loved his books, like him even more now :)
  • I have always used real locations, but with fictitious characters. Locations are real, your characters are not.
  • The novel I am sending out to agents right now is set in Brighton in 1988/
    Places like the King Alfred swimming baths and the Lanes are real, but the house in which a child is abused and a murder takes place is in a fictitious road.
    I made up a road name and Googled it to make sure!
  • liz, I think that's a good way to do it. Use real places as background, but have the main action in ficticious places.

    Blackfeather, could you mention the real theatre and then create a rival one that burns down?
  • I would not use the name of a real church for fear of offending the vicar, church wardens and parishioners. Better to invent a fictional church in a fictional town.
  • edited June 2012
    In my novel I have stretched Chesil Beach a bit and invented a house and farm for my character. But the nearby village is being kept and a minor character created for a scene in the village.
  • I love books that have an essence of factual content. RF Delderfield's To Serve Them All My Days is set on Exmoor. The place names are real enough, just not necessarily in the right place on a map.

    I spent a lovely trip plotting them on an old map and then visiting them. Sad but true. That's something to bear in mind - readers like me love being able to visit the locations. It could even become a selling point if it's handled correctly and a bonus when the book needs to be marketed.
  • One of my stories mentions a real street in a real place, but for the story purpose there is a fictitious address that couldn't exist, in the same way that Sherlock Holmes' address of 221B Baker Street is fictitious also. If it needed to be changed for possible publication however, it would be a simple matter.
  • Isn't/Wasn't M&S's head office there?
  • [quote=Phots Moll]Blackfeather, could you mention the real theatre and then create a rival one that burns down?
    [/quote]

    The burning of the theatre is integral to the story but I could change the name of the theatre to something different, it's based on the coliseum because the owner had the architect design a suite of rooms for his family to live in there though they were never used and that was the trigger for my story. My main character hides away up there and lives there making the theatre staff believe there is a ghost. It's a kind of modern reworking on the phantom of the opera and a love story :)

    [quote=Stan2]I would not use the name of a real church for fear of offending the vicar, church wardens and parishioners. Better to invent a fictional church in a fictional town.
    [/quote]

    I think even if I changed the name of the church I still want to set it in York and the village where the church is so changing the church name won't really help as the village only has one church. Even changing the name of the village to something fictional won't really help as it would be quite obvious where the general area is. Also, church names are quite limited, mine is All Saints, and lots use saint's names etc so whichever one I pick there is bound to be one somewhere that someone will believe to be there church.

    Perhaps I should inform the church of what I am doing, let them read it for themselves and explain that although these things are set there, they do have a positive outcome. The vicar is rescued and healed by an angel and the book is generally about true love. Also, I do intend to write a companion book (for promotional purposes) about the places used which will also explain that the events are fictional.
  • Although if that alternate name you choose for the church doesn't exist in the place you're setting it, then there wouldn't be any issue.
  • From Sherlock Holmes: 'I really did live at 221B Baker Street!'
  • edited June 2012
    Many years ago, when I had a 'proper job', I sometimes stayed at the Sherlock Holmes Hotel on Baker Street. Moved elsewhere after a night when some drunken Scandinavians tried to break the door of my room down and hotel security didn't show. Four star hotel as well !

    Just googled it, the hotel is still there and I'm sure it's now a perfectly secure establishment !
  • Ian Rankin is well known for using actual locations in Edinburgh - in fact an industry has sprung up around tours visiting the sites he mentions in the Rebus books.

    I'd say change the name of the church and carry on. Bear in mind that if you sell the book nationally then the majority of readers aren't going to know or care whether it's based on a real place. If they enjoy your story and learn that you used a real location, chances are they might be interested in visiting it.

    With regard to the theatre, I don't see a problem - people understand that a novel is a made-up story, and if you say a real theatre was burnt down and rebuilt, when neither actually happened, then that's just part of the fantasy.

    After all, I can't imagine the makers of Independence Day got the President's permission before they made the scene where aliens destroy the White House, and I'm fairly sure that didn't actually happen.
  • [quote=danfango]I'm fairly sure that didn't actually happen[/quote]

    :)
  • [quote=JohnWho63]Sherlock Holmes' address of 221B Baker Street is fictitious [/quote]
    Gulp! Then what the heck sort of mind-altering drugs do you British folk add to your hotels' complimentary breakfasts? When I was in London last year I travelled to 221B Baker Street and went inside the Sherlock Holmes Museum. Hehehe, I presume you mean that Sherlock Holmes was ficticious and that as a direct result 221b Baker Street was not the "actual" address of said character?
  • It didn't exist at the time, IG :)
  • edited June 2012
    bored_robots is right. At the time of the writing of the Sherlock Holmes stories, addresses on Baker Street, London did not go as high as 221. (Indeed, they only went up to 100 then). The following Wikipedia entry should set this straight.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/221B_Baker_Street
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