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POV

edited May 2006 in - Writing Problems

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  • Hi all,

    This may seem like a no-brainer of a question, but when you change a Point of View  (one character to another) do you leave a gap?

    I have left gaps when scenes change within a chapter, but not within POV.

    With gaps for change of scene and gaps for change of POV isn’t that more confusing?

    I have had some excellent feedback on my MSS (especially the humour and the description), but am ironing out the faults and working the details. If anyone would like to help with the critique (first 3 chapters) you are more than welcome to do so.

    Milhouse.
  • Hi Millhouse - point of view, viewpoint, punto da vista - whatever you call it is, I consider, one the most tricky concepts when writing fiction. Have a look in library to see if they have a copy of The Creative Writing Coursebook (University of East Anglia tutors).  I've just turned to a passage in the said book which I think might help you. 

    I quote:  developing a strong third-person voice takes practice and patience.  You need to know how to write a scene before you can start switching between different characters.
    Take this example...

    Fred walked into the office, he was glad to see that Jane was already at her desk and sorting through his piles of mail.  He looked over at her and smiled.  Jane caught Fred's eye, how handsome he was, she thought.
        'Have you got the Adams report ready for me?' Fred asked, allowing himself to lean into Jane's shoulder a little.  Jane flinched, feeling a blush rising up her cheeks.  She wished he wouldn't stand so close.

    Now the writer has a problem.  Who do we follow next?  Does Fred go into his office or do we stay with Jane and her paperwork?  Who is the story about?  It would be more subtle to consider how Fred thinks about Jane and perhaps veiw her responses from his point of view, or think about how Jane sees Fred as he walks into the office. 

    Jane could see Fred walking towards her, only his head visible above the partitions.  Oh God, he was looking at her.  She looked at her desk and pretended she hadn't seen him.
      'Have you got the Adams report ready for me? he asked. 
        He was close now, leaning ever so lightly against her shoulder.  She could feel the blush rising up her cheeks.  Why did he always do this to her?

    The narrative becomes much more immediate if you stick close to one character.  It is better, to beging with, to restrict your point of view to one character.  Choose a single protagonist and explore his/her world.  If you find yourself slipping into other points of view, work out ways of implying, rather than showing, what the other characters might be thinking.  Let the dialogue do the work for you.  If you want to explore different charactrers, a good way to do this is to split them up, let each character narrage a different section of the story...

    All that is from the book (not my words) hope it helps. 
  • If I start a POV with the name of the person who's POV it is, is there a need to leave a gap, as it is quite obvious whos point of view it is.

    (sounds like a start for writers break).
  • Hi Milhouse,
    I think you know me!! Try googling for info on POV, Try 'noveltalk - point of view' in the tool bar. I can't give you the web ref cos it comes up with the main page and I can't see where to go from there but they have a couple of good points to make. If you can write the sentence so that it is really obvious, I think you can get away with no gap but publishers use ANY excuse to not like what they get sent and any confusion will not go down well. Multiple POVs are fine but not one after the other on the same page unfortunately. I've tried it in one of my books. It was a reaction by four individuals to the same crisis. I wrote a paragraph for each person, with gaps, but in the end I changed it back to something simpler. I might have tried to get away with it later in the book but not in the first three chapters. The BBS site has POV information in the Romance section I think. You could look in any writing genre because the same 'rules' apply.
  • Hi ya Flick,
    Didn't expect to see you in this neck of the woods. Thanks so much for your help. It taught me a great deal about form. Now all I have to do is link it with my slightly disturbed but wonderful mind, and things should flow out well.

    You'll be glad to know that Briggs isn't so grumpy now, and neither am I. Everything's going well.

    Milhouse.
  • Does anyone have any thoughts on change of POV within the first chapter? I'm writing a contemporary romance (Trying to be funny but as my husband keeps telling me - I'm not - he's mean)and in the first chapter (all third person) I move from heroine's POV to Hero back to heroine and then to anti-heroine over approx 12 pages. Obviously when the scene changes I know you need to leave a line but if the scene is the same eg a supermarket, do I need to leave a line then if POV changes?
    An example of what I mean follows. Just prior to this has all been POV of Beck, the hero.

    Beck watched his hand hovering as his brain frantically warned him of an impending electric shock and he suddenly found himself reaching for a bag of sprouts.
    ‘I’m Flick,’ she muttered.
    He smiled and Flick melted into a pool of water.  Then she saw his eyes move in the direction of her basket and her stomach tied itself into an untidy knot. Nearly everything in there was reduced. He’d think she was cheap. She was cheap.

    This POV thing is doing my head in.
  • I think you have to choose one character and stick with them throughout the supermarket - you could always let the other character have a flashback later showing what they felt.
  • Flick, I think it might help you to have a look at some of the Mills and Boon Modern Romances for this VP issue. There is a tendancy by some  of their authors to do this swopping of viewpoints within a scene.
    Have a look in the charity shops for some examples.
    Not all the authors do this, some stick with the traditional viewpoint structure, or as suggested give the story from the other characters viewpoint as well.
    It can work, but it must be seemless.
    Hope this helps.
  • amboline, I love watching 'Coupling' - really funny :o)  I agree that it's well written.

    The best thing on TV, though (in drama, perhaps EVER), is 'Hustle' - there truly is not a bad thing I can say about it - worth watching purely for the scriptwriting.  It's really very cleverly done, and there's a lot to be learnt from it.
  • If you 'google' Orson Scott Card (the writer mentioned in Dorothy/d's post above)and go to his Home Page 'Hatrack River', you'll find a lot about this writer. There's also a writing class, forums and workshops - in which things like POV are discussed. This might help.
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