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I have Random Capitals Disease, which means I can't figure out if I should write lower or upper with the words mum and nan in a story (I'm assuming what is good for one is good for t'other). Doesn't help that the OED cites lower and my spellcheck (which I think has the US setting as it doesn't appreciate 'favour') strongly suggests upper!
Help!
Comments
My mum said....
Mum said...
Hey, Dad, want to go to the park? (Hey, John, want to go to the park? - works, so use capital)
I'm off to the park with my dad. (I'm off to the park with my John - doesn't work, so don't use capital)
"What do you want for dinner, Mum?" I asked my mum.
Perfectly simple answer.
Are you by any chance American? :)
No, liz, I'm English born and bred. However, 'mom' is actually from old English, and therefore the correct version of mother. It is still widely used in the West Midlands and Birmingham and other parts of the UK, and the word 'mum' will get you a funny look, since it's a bastardised word conjured up from somewhere. Mom and mommy are correct. Mum and mummy are silly. And one of them describes a corpse wrapped in bandages. Says it all really.
There is also "mother."
[quote=Red] Mum and mummy are silly.[/quote]
So you've met my mother, then! Yeah, she has her moments. :) We all say Mum and/or Mummy down here.
I agree.
I don't think you can say either is 'right' or 'wrong' - they're just different.
If you go to the OED and look any of these words up, you will end up on a paperchase through the centuries: interestingly they give Mom as only US - Red, you need to speak to them.
They think mama is from a child's first cries; that gives rise to Mammy, Mam, Mum, Mummy. Note also mum - as in what Mummers do, coming from a German word...
Mother comes from O.E. modor - the final m of Mom is therefore also a corruption. I was born in Lancashire of Yorkshire/Lancashire parents, and we always said Mum.
As regional variants are widespread in the UK, for all manner of historical reasons, there is no one right form for the entire country.
So, Red, if I were to wander into the West Midlands and say, "Her cuom se here to Readingum in West Seaxne", they'd immediately know what I was on about. That's a relief, then.
Yes,I'm a Brummie and always called my mom Mom. I remember though, that Mom got furious if my girls called her 'Nan', or 'Nanny.'. pointing out very forcefully that she wasn't a goat
[quote=bertiebear]o, Red, if I were to wander into the West Midlands and say, "Her cuom se here to Readingum in West Seaxne", they'd immediately know what I was on about. That's a relief, then.[/quote]
In the Black Country it's still possible to find old Saxon words in the dialect. My late M in L always referred to the back yard as the 'fode', (fold or enclosure) and I'm pretty sure there are others.
A person of definite views is Red. :)
Me, I like the diversity of languages and dialects.
I was brought up by an English father and Australian mother in Tranmere, Rugby and Hove, so I had the opportunity to pick up all kinds of linguistic quirks.
I called my parents Mummy and Daddy until my teens when I changed to Mum and Pa. My own kids did the same with their dad and me.
My grandsons have a Sussex-born father and a Slovakian mother and they call their parents Daddy and Mummy.
My other daughter-in-law is Canadian, so she uses "Mom".
My OH is from Yorkshire and his mother was "Muther". Some of our friends refer to their father as "The auld fella".
I'm "Nan" because my Manchunian step-grandchildren called me "Nanny Liz" and it stuck. My own mother is Granny to her 17 grandchildren.
The children here say "Mami" or sometime "Ma". In France it's "Mama".
...........so in my opinion no region or person should try to dictate what's the right name to use for ones parents.
A person of definite views is Red. [/quote]
I am, liz. If I addressed my mom as 'Mum', she'd slap be into next week.
[quote=snailmale]bertiebear wrote: o, Red, if I were to wander into the West Midlands and say, "Her cuom se here to Readingum in West Seaxne", they'd immediately know what I was on about. That's a relief, then.
In the Black Country it's still possible to find old Saxon words in the dialect. My late M in L always referred to the back yard as the 'fode', (fold or enclosure) and I'm pretty sure there are others. [/quote]
Quite right Snail, the Black Country is one of the few places that still "spaeks" the mother tongue. (No idea what that Lizzie in Bucks Palace is doing, speaking like she's got a golfball stuck in her clacker...)
Well, no - it speaks a mutated version of several introduced tongues. People did speak in the West Midlands before Romans, Vikings, Saxons, Jutes et al popped over, not to mention the Normans.
Language grows and changes constantly; otherwise we would all understand that bit of Anglo-Saxon I quoted earlier.
(Funny to think that Reading was Reading, even in the A-S Chronicle.)
It was a joke. Mother tongue being a tongue in cheek reference which Snailmale would undoubtedly smile at.
In my novels I write about Birmingham. Mom is mom, always has been and always will be. I have had a number of emails regarding my use of mom as against mum. I've also been asked numerous times if I'm from the US. Not so long ago someone said I should alter mom to mum in my novel. Really? No way, what a cheek!
I contacted Professor Carl Chinn, he is well known in Birmingham for his extensive knowledge of the area. He also teaches at Birmingham University. He has always been a huge support to me when I've been unable to track information down. Not just me I might add he has helped 100s of people over the years.
I asked Carl about mom as against mum. Here's his reply.
Hi Carol
its Our Mom and dont let anyone tell you different! Below is the entry from my book Proper Brummie.
Best wishes
Carl
mom n. the diminutive of mother and used overwhelmingly by working-class and lower middle-class folk in Birmingham and the Black Country. On the Births, Deaths and Marriages page of the Birmingham Evening Mail it is rare to find the word mum. In Wales, Ireland and much of northern England, the diminutive is mam, but in the West Midlands the a vowel is often changed to an o sound after an m or n; see also mon.
When anyone writes to me now - I send this information on!
Carol
If anyone questions me now, I quote Carl.
It's an interesting book as well, as are all the others of his I've read.
Carol
He said the first record he bought was Ride A White Swan by T.Rex; the same as me.
I mentioned to Carl that T.Rex, which then existed of just Marc Bolan and Mickey Finn, performed in the grounds of Dudley Castle along with Rod Stewart, Robert plant and others under the banner of Castle Rock a charity event for the World Wild Life Fund, in 1970.
The programme was supposed to be about local history, but when Carl introduced me he said, Heres Kado, whos going to tell us all about Marc Bolan!
We both burst out laughing.
I heard the start of his prog the other Sunday, he messed up again!
I've met him a few times over the years, there's no side to him. He's the same off air as he is on. A really nice person.
I'm definitely a Mum (or Mummy), too, and my Mum doesn't mind being referred to as a goat, but my Sister hates it when her children are referred to as kids. Aren't dialects great, eh?
I've met with Professor Chinn too. Very nice bloke, and he knows his stuff.
[quote= Dudess]And to think I was only fascinated by the use of capitals (heaven knows what you'll think of me because I started a sentence with a conjunction). [/quote]
Nothing wrong with conjunctions, especially cleverly placed ones.
1. Tell mum she's the best mum in the world.
2. No, mum, I'm not letting my own mum get away with that.
3. She phoned her mum to remind her that mum wasn't going to be there.
If you changed only one word in each, you could have been right.
What they mean of course is a Hugh Grant accent that only 0.2% of people speak. A black country, Geordie, south Wales, Irish (ALL), Scouse, and anything Scottish blows my mind. So yeah as Steve said if you can replace it with a name make it a proper noun, If not small letter. But please enjoy the diversity of our regional accents and language.