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How many writers actually make a living writing???

datco2014datco2014
edited May 2014 in Writing
I've read conflicting opinions on various websites but the consensus seems to be about 3% of active, published writers make a living from writing but most need to do other work to support their 'habit'. Only about 1% seem to be able to make a good living - so for every JK or Dan Brown there are thousands of others struggling - I wonder how many of the 'new breed' of self-published writers make good money?

It was announced today that Iain Banks left an estate of around £4.6m to his wife.

I know most of us - probably nearly all of us are not in it for the money - just as well - but I'd like to know who hopes to be able to achieve the dream (like me) of one day giving up the day job??
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Comments

  • Phots MollPhots Moll
    The 3% figure sounds about right to me. There are probably more writers than that who make a living from writing AND teaching, giving talks, editing etc.
  • LizLiz
    edited May 2014
    The Society of Authors says that the average wage of a writer is £4,000.

    I know someone who is excellent and successful who still has to work 3 days a week.
  • Mrs BearMrs Bear
    *Dreams of £4000*
  • boredrobotsboredrobots
    ...the average wage of a writer is £4,000.
    Bugger - last time I checked it was £7k...we're going down!

    I know some writers who have several novels in Waterstones, WHSmith, etc; have book signings; hang around with the top in their fields, and still have to have full time jobs.
  • Tiny NellTiny Nell
    I get 5 cents a book (in Euros).
  • boredrobotsboredrobots
    5 cents a book? A book??!

    Pro rates are 5 cents a word!
  • doodledoodle
    My earnings since 1st January 2014 amount to £30. The day job gave me up 15 years ago. Lucky I have a supportive partner and simple tastes. (wonders if it is wise to put the words simple and partner in the same sentence. Oh well, its Friday, I'll push my luck)
  • Tiny NellTiny Nell
    Yep, br, 5c a book according to the CreateSpace reports...

    I am withering away through lack of stale bread.
  • boredrobotsboredrobots
    I've got some stale bread kicking about somewhere, TN (la de da, ey?)

    I'll post you some crusts.
  • Stan2Stan2
    And sour milk?
  • Tiny NellTiny Nell
    Mmm. Luxury.
  • CarolCarol
    edited May 2014
    Oh to earn some money from my writing...

    Hold on- I did, I got some ALCS money... :D
  • Tiny NellTiny Nell
    I keep thinking about that, Carol. It wasn't from the OWC, was it? I'm in that.
  • Mrs BearMrs Bear
    edited May 2014
    I had a day job once. I remember it. I drove a limited edition Golf and dressed really smartly. I earned a magnificent £7k per year at the top of my game. (Local authorities and school terms don't make for fat purses.)
    If I made £4k a year, I'd be on over half what I earned then - but without the Golf and the posh clothes; so by saving money on them, maybe I'd come out ahead?
  • CarolCarol
    I keep thinking about that, Carol. It wasn't from the OWC, was it? I'm in that.
    Yes, for the print version.

    Register your contributions to it now, TN.

  • Tiny NellTiny Nell
    Oh!

    I just don't understand why anyone would pay us. #-o
  • CarolCarol
    ?????? Why not- we're writers... :-B
  • Tiny NellTiny Nell
    I mean, I understand that whoever buys the book is paying money (although that goes to Lola's charity), but who else pays?
  • CarolCarol
    It's to do with licencing arrangements. Libraries and educational institutions and organisations pay a fee.

    https://www.alcs.co.uk/What-we-do/Where-the-money-comes-from

    While the royalties from every copy of the book sold come to us via our publisher, ALCS is a secondary source of income to the writer- just like PLR is to authors with books in listed libraries...
  • Mrs BearMrs Bear
    Explain that to me, Carol. I'm in the OWC book - does that mean I should register for ALCS? Where and how?
  • polar bearpolar bear
    Er, not me! I don't know any writers who make enough to live on. My last royalties were for $3.99! I guess I could buy a pack of biros...
  • ClaudiaClaudia
    Explain that to me, Carol. I'm in the OWC book - does that mean I should register for ALCS? Where and how?
    Ditto!
    (In fact shouldn't all the contributors know about this??)

  • Baggy BooksBaggy Books
    edited May 2014
    ALCS has been mentioned many, many times - and in relation to the OWC. If you're in a book or magazine, register. If you have photos or illustrations in a book or magazine, register with DACS.

    ALCS deduct the membership fee from their first payment - so it costs nothing to register.

    I've mentioned ALCS regularly - especially when the money is due to be paid out (February/March).

    It doesn't take long to register. Once you've done that, just add all new bits and bobs as you're published.

    Over the years I've done well from my meagre qualifying articles and photographs.


  • boredrobotsboredrobots
    I've made a couple of hundred this year! Woooo :P And I plan to make more :D
  • LizyLizy
    So my chances of buying a London pad on my earnings are less than good?
  • CarolCarol
    For those who are outside of the UK (from the FAQs)

    "I don't live in the UK, can I still join ALCS?

    Yes you can, although depending on where you live it might be more appropriate for you to join your local collecting society. ALCS holds reciprocal agreements with over 50 collecting societies around the world to whom we can transfer your money if we have collected payments for you. If you would like information about your local collecting society please contact us. "
  • Mrs BearMrs Bear
    'ALCS has been mentioned many, many times - and in relation to the OWC.'

    Yes, but we novices don't believe it can possibly relate to us! Will check it out forthwith.
  • montholonmontholon
    I'm registered with ALCS, but I've never heard of the OWC. Please could someone explain?
  • CarolCarol
    It was the One Word Anthology, Montholon.

    While the e-book doesn't count the paperback version does, so those TB's in the printed version of the anthology can register their contribution to it.
  • montholonmontholon
    Thanks, Carol. Obviously I wasn't involved in that.
  • Tiny NellTiny Nell
    Well, blow me down with an absolute sparrow feather!

    I have just discovered that I can buy my own books at a discount. I've been going through the punters' route and paying full whack.

    I can be soooo dim.

    (Comments not invited...)
  • snailmalesnailmale
    =))
  • CarolCarol
    Well, blow me down with an absolute sparrow feather!

    I have just discovered that I can buy my own books at a discount. I've been going through the punters' route and paying full whack.

    Explain please?

  • Tiny NellTiny Nell
    It's with CreateSpace, Carol. On my dashboard page is an option to 'Buy copies'. When I looked, they were much cheaper than the price I've had to put them on for ( CS tells you a minimum price). However, since looking into that, there's not really a discount as shipping takes it back up to the Amazon price. I think if I were to order multiple copies, though, I might save a bit.

    And sm: :P
  • aeschylusaeschylus
    I've now sold 650 copies of my two AS study guides since the start of the year. While sales should fall off a cliff in a week or two, as people take the exams, it shows that even in what looks like a crowded market there is room for someone like me. I knew there was a market because I've started from my own current teaching experience. My three books have review scores of 4.7, 5 and 5 but they were selling even without the benefit of reviews. When I do the maths, I think there is potentially a living to be made in educational self-publishing, if you can make the time for the research. I can see a point-admittedly in the medium term- where what I'm doing could make a living, if I were to reach the point where I had enough titles in circulation.
  • CarolCarol
    Can you get ALCS for them aeschylus?
  • Mrs BearMrs Bear
    For overseas writers: you can't sign up to ACLS online: you have to print off the form and post it. All it wants is your name, address, phone numbers, email and bank details. Very simple. (All your most important details on one page...)
  • ClaudiaClaudia
    Thanks for the info, Mrs B. I won't be able to do anything with this until I have a permanent address, but at least I now know what I'll have to do! :)

    p.s. did you have to supply a UK bank - or is your French one accepted?
  • danfangodanfango
    The Society of Authors says that the average wage of a writer is £4,000.
    That's not the whole story, Liz. That figure comes from an ALCS report based on a survey of their members carried out in 2005. I believe there's another survey underway, so it'll be interesting to see any difference between then and now. Presumably it will include a lot more self-published authors.

    The £4,000 figure is the median income for all the people who responded to the survey, so any member of ALCS - which means the figure probably includes a significant number of people like myself, who occasionally have a small income from writing but aren't by any stretch of the imagination professional writers. The mean figure for all respondents to the survey is £16,531. The difference between the two figures suggests many people earning almost nothing from writing, with a few authors netting very large sums. (I'm sure that won't come as a surprise to anyone).

    When you narrow it down to what ALCS class as "professional authors" - defined as those who spend more than 50% of their time writing (I assume that means 50% of their working hours, rather than 50% of all the time they have available, although it doesn't make that entirely clear), the figures are more promising. The mean is £28,340, whereas the median is £12,330. These figures are much closer, relatively speaking, although there will obviously be some skewing from people who spend most of their time writing yet earn very little and those right at the top of the income ladder.

    There isn't a huge amount of detail given in the report, but the figures suggest to me that a typical income for a published and moderately successful author (i.e. a solid mid-lister who's had a few books published) would be in the region of £15,000 to £20,000. Not great, but a lot better than £4000.

    The report can be read in full here: http://www.alcs.co.uk/Documents/Downloads/whatarewordsworth.aspx


    I was amazed to see that the best area in which to make a living was writing for soap operas: the mean/median income for that sector is £73,863/£73,000 - twice what the respondents made writing novels!
  • Mrs BearMrs Bear
    Thanks for the info, Mrs B. I won't be able to do anything with this until I have a permanent address, but at least I now know what I'll have to do! :)

    p.s. did you have to supply a UK bank - or is your French one accepted?
    It accepts international bank accounts (EU and US). You need the IBAN and SWIFT code numbers. You need to have a contact address - doesn't specify that it has to be a permanent residential one. Contact will be via email. If you have any queries, contact them - they sound very helpful.
  • CarolCarol
    They are very helpful, Claudia. On the couple of occasions I needed to contact them they were very helpful and gave me the information I needed straight away.
  • Phots MollPhots Moll
    As the ALCS survey was of their members, it will be of writers who've already sold work and thought it worthwile registering. Those who're yet to make a sale, or who've only received token payments from ezines won't be included so the figure will be much higher than if it included everyone who has ever hoped to make money from writing.
  • danfangodanfango
    Yes, but then that's as it should be, PM - you can't rely on a figure for what a typical writer's earnings are if you try to include people who haven't actually made any money from writing.
  • CarolCarol
    The recent ALCS survey, was mostly irrelevant to those who are now only starting to get earnings from their writing.

    I gave up because most of it I couldn't answer.
  • Mrs BearMrs Bear
    danfango, I like your numbers! The more you write, the more you can make - simple! (Get back to work, Bear!)
  • Phots MollPhots Moll
    I'd didn't mean the average should include those who've made nothing yet, just that judging ourselves, especially if we're starting out, against such figures makes little sense. Variations are so wide and there are so many factors which influence our chances of success that it's impossible to guess what, if anything, we might earn.
  • danfangodanfango
    Yes, I agree entirely, Patsy. Sorry for misunderstanding.
    danfango, I like your numbers! The more you write, the more you can make - simple! (Get back to work, Bear!)
    Should we expect a bear-themed soap opera in the near future?

  • Baggy BooksBaggy Books
    As we all, on here, consider ourselves writers, it would be interesting to assess what our earnings are. That would give an average - and an accurate figure.

    Some of us earn enough to pay bills, some write for the pleasure - and some have a foot in both camps.

    Obviously we can't do it - but if you look at averages, the figures wouldn't really be of benefit.
  • Mrs BearMrs Bear
    'Should we expect a bear-themed soap opera in the near future?'

    Neighbours, with koalas? (I know they aren't bears; where's your lateral thinking?) It could work, if only as a one off.
    Or - I know! A cop show called 'Kodiak'!
  • aeschylusaeschylus
    In response to Carol's helpful prompt I've rung ALCS who have told me to register. They asked me how I'd heard of them- I said here- I suggested they might like to contact the mag and mebbe put a piece about themselves in it.
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