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Writing/grammar/punctuation queries

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  • stained glass canopies

    or

    stained-glass canopies?
  • Unless the glass canopies are stained...
  • Not on my watch.
  • There's nothing wrong with stained glass windows, so why not stained glass canopies also.
  • I always think that if you don't know then probably it doesn't matter They are two separate words, so can stay separate. Or not. I don't know why, but in this instance, I like them separate.
  • I have stained glass windows in my VELUX - impossible to clean. I have a stained-glass panel in my door.
    Not sure I've ever seen a stained-glass canopy, which sounds very decorative, but we have a stained glass canopy above the back floor of our second house which needs cleaning with the karcher.
  • Ah, it's for a leafy canopy in a poem...
  • They are two separate words, so can stay separate. Or not.
    They can, but they have different meanings in each case.

  • edited May 2017
    The OED only gives stained glass, the noun, meaning the item produced from glass which has been stained; unhelpfully it doesn't venture into the realms of stained-glass or stained glass windows, being windows made from stained glass.
    Fowler only refers to the difference between stain glass and stained glass in estate agent-speak.
    The Oxford A-Z of Grammar and Punctuation says a hyphen is still used when the meaning is unclear without it; so it's down to context.
    If it's in a poem, you could make use of the duality.
  • Thank you, Mrs Bear. I couldn't find anything like that in my Editors' dictionary!
  • No, not that one, Ms Dictionary Peddler.
  • LizLiz
    edited May 2017
    They are two separate words, so can stay separate. Or not.
    They can, but they have different meanings in each case.

    Do you want it to be a simile or metaphor for a stained glass window or do you want it to be a metaphor or simile for the leaves looking like stained glass? I'd choose the latter as there will be no contiguous outline round all the leaves so I'd have stained glass canopy. but if you want it to be the canopy looks like a stained glass window then I'd use stained-glass.

  • I love this thread.
  • edited May 2017
    No wonder I can't write poetry. I'd just settle for dirty perspex.
  • I love this thread.
    It's great that we all understand the dilemma. Joe Bloggs just wouldn't have a clue!
  • Do you call a chamois leather a 'chamee' leather, or do you pronounce it the French way?
  • Yeah. That.
  • Yep.
  • That's good. Ta.
  • Shammy - and I live in France.
  • Straight from the bouche of the cheval.
    Thank you, Mrs Bear.
  • I'm in the final stages of fine tuning the new website and my mind has gone a bit mushy. I read this bullet point and suddenly wondered if 'nights' should have an apostrophe. I don't think it should, but best to check. Thanks.

    - minimum 3 nights stay

  • There aren't any letters ommitted, so it doesn't need on on that score.

    I can't see there's anything possesive either. You could rephrase to 'minimum stay of three nights'.

  • I would say that, technically, it is possessive. However, I have never seen a holiday booking site where an apostrophe has been used in that way.
  • Would you say: one night stay OR one night's stay?
  • Three nights' stay, as it's a stay of three nights' duration?

    Mrs B, stained glass Velux?! There's posh! And what's a karcher?
  • edited May 2017
    I might go with PM's rephrased suggestion. And while I'm pondering apostrophes - how about this one:

    - the barbecue area is available for guests' use...

    and another one:

    - we encourage our guests to relax in a peaceful, stress free environment and to respect others’ right to quiet enjoyment of the property.
  • Both as they are
  • Thanks - I was pretty sure I'd got those right. :)
  • For the sake of formality, stress-free, as a compound, should be hyphenated.
  • Lizy, the glass in our Velux is stained by condensation inside the double glazing, due to extreme age. A Karcher is a pressure washer.
  • Ah - so your home isn't adorned with flowers and butterflies when the sun shines?
    Another illusion shattered.
  • Lizy, the glass in our Velux is stained by condensation inside the double glazing, due to extreme age. A Karcher is a pressure washer.
    You can also get a Karcher window cleaner. I have one and it's brilliant.
  • Ok, another writing question which has nothing to do with punctuation for my new website (you'll be relieved to hear).

    I'm writing a story about a Canadian in Canada in the third person. It's for a UK competition. The characters speak like Canadians. But I have just realised that I have used UK English spelling throughout: e.g. 'centre' not 'center' and 'colour' not 'color'.
    If you were me, would you change the spelling of these words?

    *admits to some reluctance to do so*
  • In dialogue or non-dialogue?

    Certainly wouldn't in non-dialogue. Probably wouldn't in dialogue. Not even sure why I'm differentiating!

    Does that help? :D
  • I once wrote a story about Canadians. Their dialogue made it evident that they were not British in the type of language they used, but I used English spelling throughout.
  • No, I haven't changed the spelling in the dialogue, I meant that they speak like Canadians and say things like 'eh' and 'jeez' and 'honey'.
    The story is set in Canada too which is why I suddenly wondered if I should change the spelling.
  • Yes, my characters said 'jeez' and 'honey' - and the man was called Chuck!

    Not that I'm stereotyping or anything...
  • I know many Canadians, we lived there for nearly two months and not one of them said jeez or honey - they are much more British than American.
  • I'd stick to English spelling, but they should speak like Canadians.
  • edited May 2017
    Liz, I know Canada and Canadians. I wouldn't set a story in a country I don't have reasonable knowledge of! My brother and his family are Canadian citizens and they most definitely do say things like 'eh' 'jeez' and 'honey'.
  • And some of them even speak French. Sorry.
  • LizLiz
    edited May 2017
    We didn't hear any of those sorts of expressions, I was surprised - perhaps it was because they live in BC and the other side, which is more American? One of my close friends (she came here as a teen and then went back two years later, but we have corresponded ever since) is Canadian and not a single expression that sounds Americanised as much as that issues forth... my neighbours cousins are Canadian and we stayed with them for a couple of weeks in Vancouver and no... and my best friend's husband who is now over here obviously is Canadian and also, not a jeez or honey to be found... He has been here for quite a few years now though.

    I ALMOST wanted to stay, it was like here only 50 yeas ago.
  • Yes, it does have a nostalgic feel. My youngest is married to a Canadian. They use American words such as daiper and diner and gas instead of petrol, and have shops like Walmart. No need to spell American in the story, Claudia.
  • Very interesting topic. I wonder if there is a definitive protocol that directs whether or not the specific language be spelt natively in dialogue? Interesting that BB mentions French, because if we wrote French dialogue, we would italicise it, wouldn't we?
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