Is it ethical to steal a plot?

megrose

I recently read - can't remember where - that, if you can't think of a plot for a short story, just take a plot from an old magazine story, people it with your own characters, choose a different setting and re-write it. I just wondered what others thought about this.

Tiny Nell

I think the copyright exists just for the words and character names, not for the idea.

Personally, I don't think it's ethical.

heather

It depends what you mean by plot. If it's the rough outline, then it's probably been used dozens of times before anyway.
e.g. A single mother looking for love meets a perfect man then she sees him with another woman and they are kissing. However, it turns out the woman is his sister.
There are many such plots in magazine fiction that come up over and over again.

If it goes as far as the woman works in a florist, the man is a customer who comes in every day, buying specific flowers based on their meaning etc etc etc then it's possibly unethical to steal it.
Having said that though, this is a story that I started writing a few years ago and couldn't be bothered finishing. I saw a story almost the same a few months ago in print. So no-one had stolen anything - just had the same idea!

(Many famous stories are effectively stolen plots e.g. West Side Story/Romeo and Juliet.)

Phots Moll

The whole story is subject to copyright - not just the names.

Stealing a whole plot and just tweaking a few details such as character names is definitely wrong. Legally as well as ethically.

Using a story as a starting point or to get ideas is fine though. If you really do use your own characters, rather than changing the names of other people's, then it'll become a different story as those characters will act differently and change the plot.

Baggy Books

You can't copyright an idea, but I think a magazine would soon blacklist a writer if they were made aware of a direct lift. Similarly with a competition – writing is a surprisingly small community and successful comp entries are often published and would be recognised.

Carol

You can't copyright ideas. If they were there would never be any new stories.

I'd suggest the story being the inspiration for a new story on that same theme, with plot elements- many will have been used already in many other stories.

megrose

Thanks for your comments. I don't think I was very clear about what I meant when I posted the question. It was never my intention to ask if I could lift a story completely. I do understand about plagiarism. My thoughts were very much along the lines of your reply, Carol, e.g. using a story theme as inspiration for a new story, and I realise that I didn't make that plain.

Baggy Books

We draw inspiration from anything and everything.

Carol

By the time the story is written it will be completely different too, as the characters will be certain to put their own slant on the proceedings.

danfango

There's only really one plot:
- Somebody wants something
- They try to get it
- They either succeed or fail

The "something" can be an object, a person/relationship, an achievement or experience.

As Carol says, it's your characters that'll make it unique.

Betsie

Think of all the love stories.... boy meets girl, they don't like each other, a bit of conflict, something happens, then they like each other.... bring on the violins...

Take any old story remove the waffle and write down the bare bones... I mean the very bare bones... i.e. whittle it down to a few sentences. There's your plot ready for YOUR characters to behave in whatever way they will - different era, different class, different everything, and no one will know from where you took your inspiration.

Lizy

What they said.

My initial reaction to the title of this thread was, "Why are you even asking? - The answer is a resounding NO." So I was glad to see your question modified later.

NovelFinder

Considering the discussion topic whether it is a good idea to steal a plot from a book that another author has already published I have some ideas on this subject to draw a few narrative registers. There is an idea that I have had for a writing project that I have on the go at the moment that is waiting to be taken further. I am planning to write a fantasy novel that focussing on the young adult/children's readership that will be part of a regular series once it takes shape in that format. I took inspiration for my idea from a recognised work by a well-known author, which was The Lord of the Rings by JRR Tolkein, and the idea was an invented language. My plot and the characters that drive the plot are completely different from the version Tolkein had written but the idea behind it is similar. Another influence that I put emphasis on in the crafting of this particular story had been The Chronicles of Narnia by CS Lewis.
The book I've thought about is set in the modern day rather than the period of WWII where the main characters are experiencing their adventures that is the focus of the story but there is a fantasy world where they find a secret passage to. It can also be pointed out that if anyone is wondering what sort of secret passage into a fantasy world I mean I'm talking about something different and slightly more exciting than the example that was depicted in Chronicles of Narnia. My fantasy world is slightly inspired by Phillip Pullman's books such as the one that was made into a film as there is a continent that has divided into different countries that is populated and governed by a particular tribe. The tribe I have chosen for each is distinct from Pullman but I was particularly interested in the Egyptians that was one of them mentioned in the Golden Compass text so I decided to call the people by the same name as the writer I was inspired by so that the ideas could be seen from my text easily in case readers didn't have much historical knowledge as other readers might. To use this particular plot devise I chose to contact the publisher that printed the writer's books to ask expressly for written permission to follow the same path. I received communication in response to the inquiries I was making during the process of researching for the writing project and the message informed me gratefully that the author was agreeing to the use of the idea in my text. Following on from the subject of an invented language I have drawn on the ideas that were used by Tolkien to tell the story he has written but the language I have created is different from the one he has used but I have given it a similar design and feel to his.

SneakyOregano

I have an idea based on the film Tower Block (which isn't that great a film). My story probably won't take part in a block of flats, but it is a justice killing. The idea - of justice, vengeance - is the same, but it will be completely different.

It is fine to take a basic idea, and tweak it to fit your desires. Every writer does that, consciously or otherwise. Isn't it said their are only 12 plots in the world? But every story is very different.

NovelFinder

That idea sounds interesting Sneaky Oregano.

I have an idea based on the film Tower Block (which isn't that great a film). My story probably won't take part in a block of flats, but it is a justice killing. The idea - of justice, vengeance - is the same, but it will be completely different.

It is fine to take a basic idea, and tweak it to fit your desires. Every writer does that, consciously or otherwise. Isn't it said their are only 12 plots in the world? But every story is very different.

I see what you're saying there about stories being different compared to other stories and it is fine to start with a general idea then give variations on the theme so that it follows the narrative register you want to weave into your story. I suppose that is something that writers often have been doing. I'm intrigued though about the justice killing part and what kind of direction you want the story to go in.

SneakyOregano

That idea sounds interesting Sneaky Oregano.

I have an idea based on the film Tower Block (which isn't that great a film). My story probably won't take part in a block of flats, but it is a justice killing. The idea - of justice, vengeance - is the same, but it will be completely different.

It is fine to take a basic idea, and tweak it to fit your desires. Every writer does that, consciously or otherwise. Isn't it said their are only 12 plots in the world? But every story is very different.

I see what you're saying there about stories being different compared to other stories and it is fine to start with a general idea then give variations on the theme so that it follows the narrative register you want to weave into your story. I suppose that is something that writers often have been doing. I'm intrigued though about the justice killing part and what kind of direction you want the story to go in.

I take it you haven't watched the movie in question then! I actually started the idea over on my blog. We watched the film and I thought the actual film was rubbish, but the general idea was good. I decided that the story was too contrived and unbelievable in the film. It will be a similar direction - witnesses don't help in putting an offender away, family incensed, so get revenge. But it will be more the police/investigative side of the revenge killings, than the story of those being killed. But it may be one where POV varies. This is a sort of new idea for me. I had been wanting to write on revenge for a while. A few ideas were rolling around my brain, but nothing fully formed. Then I watched the film and it brought them all together.

Would anyone who didn't see this thread think it was based on the Tower Block story? Maybe, but it won't be so obvious, as it will be very different at the same time as being very much the same. Again, I am taking a premise, and making it my own.

montholon

I'm very uncomfortable with the way in which 'What Katy Did' has been appropriated and 'updated' by Jacqueline Wilson. What do the rest of you think?

Liz

Is it out of copyright? I loved that book, and 'What Katy Did Next' when I was a child.

montholon

It came out in 1872, so I suppose it must be. That fact doesn't detract from the way I feel about the new book, though.

Carol

The author died in 1905, and in the USA the copyright on that first book would be long gone.

Liz

I had no idea it was written that so long ago! I wonder where my copy is... I found Heidi a little while ago, and Heidi Grows Up and Heidi's Children. Tobias and Martalie. Loved those books, too. For years my children were going to be called Toby and Marta.

NovelFinder

I didn't realise that there are further books in the Hiedi saga that describe the parts in the middle about what Hiedi was getting up to when she grew up and then goes on to tell the story about her children. I thought she was always that girl. On the What Katy Did subject I think that it is a good idea to do a story about Katy that is relevant for the modern world as it will have different concepts for Katy's experience. But I do really like the older version as I was surprised it was going to be a special needs person.

Liz

What?

Lydia1960

Going back to the original question, about commandeering somebody's else's plot. It's a dog eat dog world out there. If you come across an idea that has legs, potential to twist that into a story device for your own personal gain, then sure. It's fair game. You just have to express it in such a creative way so that it becomes your story with your personal twist on it, carving this out as different to the original tale. Anything's possible In creativity land, if you follow the accepted rules..

Lydia1960

By the way, can someone tell.me why the threads I have commented upon aren't being flagged up on my activity section of my profile. Getting confused as to which threads I have participated on. Any solutions...?

Mrs Bear

I looked at my Activity, and it just lists what I've done and where I've commented. Is that what you mean, Lydia?

Lydia1960

Think I've solved this. To flag up the discussions you are active on, just tap on the star sign next to the thread and all the replies come up on your activity part of discussions,on your profile...so yeah, that's what I meant. So now I know if there have been any responses on those threads, instead of being in the dark...

Tiny Nell

There is also a tab at the top which says 'My discussions'.

I just have All discussions up and look at what's been said when there is a yellow notification to indicate a new comment. I read almost every thread.

Lydia1960

My mind's sore with all the things I have to do on a personal level, otherwise I'd be happy to view every comment on every thread here, too. I've really felt attuned to myself since I started joining in with this forum..

Carol

I use all discussions, and new comments show up as a number, and I choose which threads I want to read and leave the others.

Tiny Nell

Some threads have been going for years, so no point scrolling back to the beginning of them! You can just dip in to latter comments, if interested!

Lydia1960

That's what I have been doing. Canny lass...!