Mid-eighteenth century setting

cheshirecheese

My story is set in the mid-18th century. The hats that most of us know as tricorn hats would have been known as cocked hats in the period of this story. I believe the shape of hat was the same, just the name changing later in the century. My question is: do you think I should use the term that most people will know or the one that is more of the period?

Tiny Nell

I think it would be more authentic to use the term that would have been used in the time.

Baggy Books

If you're sure of your research, go with cocked.

This was interesting:

http://www.gentlemenoffortune.com/tricorne.htm

Mrs Bear

Look through your character's eyes and use the term he'd be most familiar with.

Carol

Just looked up my Dictionary of Fashion History- the Cunnington's were experts in fashion history and produced a lot of well researched books.

The entry is 'Cock, cocked hat, late 17th-early 19th c. The turn-up brim of the hat, various named forms such as Denmark cock, Monmouth cock and the Dettingham cock. Later the term was used to denote the angle at which the hat was worn, and also the term was adjusted to cocked-hat.'

Tricorn/e does not feature in this one.

Tricorne from the French, 18th c, three horned.(From my Cassell Dictionary of Word Histories.)

cheshirecheese

Another question:
I read of gentlemen going to the races and betting on cockfights etc, but no mention of the ladies. Did women go to the races?

Carol

The cockfights were a men only past-time.

For the races, what social class of women are you looking at?

Baggy Books

I've seen paintings that show women at cockfights. It depends on the class of woman you're writing about.

Carol

Exactly Baggy.
'Ladies' would not have gone to cock-fights, but there would have been other women around- they would have been working in the inns, and local prostitutes of course.

The horse-racing isn't so problematic, but it depends on date, location- is it during the less formalised times, or after some rules were brought in? A larger place- such as Newmarket? Or a provincial town that had an area on the outskirts that was used for racing?

Carol

Old books that you should be able to get second-hand, anything about 18th century by Dorothy (M) George.

Old history books by Batsford (the publisher).

There are a lot of standard reference books that these 19th/20th century writers referred to.

cheshirecheese

Exactly Baggy.
'Ladies' would not have gone to cock-fights, but there would have been other women around- they would have been working in the inns, and local prostitutes of course.

The horse-racing isn't so problematic, but it depends on date, location- is it during the less formalised times, or after some rules were brought in? A larger place- such as Newmarket? Or a provincial town that had an area on the outskirts that was used for racing?

Specifically Ladies of the gentrified type in 1756 at the Knutsford races.

Carol

Knutsford (looking at some of the images of the streets on Google) does still seem to show signs of having had lots of inns, which suggests lots of traffic, lots of men on race days.

You need to find out how near the original racecourse was to noted houses in the district.

When you say gentrified, I assume you're talking local gentry, Esquires and country gentlemen ( I couldn't see many of their wives attending unless it was a special event- such as a very high profile person, or royalty was attending).

Or do you mean wives of those within the Peerage? Who might well attend with their husband and sit in a carriage set back from the crowd, but still able to see the racing.

Sorry to keep asking questions. You've probably researched the place and local history, so can make a good guess at whether the racecourse would have been suitable.

If it's essential that your character is there, then you'll find a way around it, you just need to research the point more specifically.

cheshirecheese

The race course was located not far from Lord Egerton's Tatton Park. The only reference to ladies at the races that I have found is for 100 years later where George Harry Grey, 7th Earl of Stamford and Warrington took his wife to the races. However, this was no ordinary lady. She used to ride bareback for a circus and was snubbed on her arrival at the races by turned backs and raised parasols. I have no reference to ladies at the races 100 years before. As you say, if it were not commonplace, I could contrive a situation to place a character there. The woman in question would be unmarried and in her twenties, daughter of a yeoman or gentleman, not nobility.

Carol

She is putting herself at risk of physical and social harm unless she has a male around to protect her- family member or family friend.

Dressing up as a male is a bit of a cliché, though was likely the way it was achieved.

Mrs Bear

Single daughters of yeomen or gentlemen still had to think of their reputation - and being seen at what was a male sporting event would be disastrous.
Sporting meetings were for gambling, drinking, and generally having a good time - not places for any woman with any pretension to being well-bred.
There was a very high moral tone in Knutsford in the 18th century, enforced by Lady Jane Stanley, daughter of the Earl of Derby. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/howaboutthat/11273266/Knutsfords-narrow-pavements-widened-against-wishes-of-18th-century-spinster.html
If you read through this, you'll find that 'she had very strict notions of propriety and of the courtesies of life, and would not have them infringed.' Her influence would have encompassed all that went on in the town. Given that, it would therefore have been severely frowned upon for any young woman to do anything so daring as to attend the races.

Carol

Lady Jane Stanley would have been in her 50's at the time cheshirecheese is looking at setting the story, so it would have been ruin, because it would have bound to have got back to her.

:-<

cheshirecheese

I am familiar with the narrow pavements in question and their origin, but had overlooked that Lady Jane Stanley would have been very much around in this period. The young woman in question would not take such a risk to her reputation if the races, even if escorted by her father, was not the place to be.