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Grammar Wizard Wanted

edited September 2016 in Writing
Hi all. I am perplexed about the construction of 'first person' speech during which the speech is interrupted. I am using em rules, but their positioning is confounding me. The passage goes thus:

Meredith bears the aggressive carriage of a lioness protecting her pride. 'Very well, Alexander. Come along--' Meredith looks to me-- 'What's your name again? Come and meet my sister, Roslyn.'

My problem is: Should the second dash actually be placed inside the speech, thus: '--What's your name again . . .

Any views would be appreciated. I have Hart's Rules, but it doesn't cover this particular annoyance!

Comments

  • I would keep both dashes outside the speech marks and write (without the ellipses, of course):

    '...Come along' - Meredith looks at me - 'What's your name again?...'

    Not sure whether to include a full stop after 'Come along', however; it's a complete command rather than the first half of a sentence which is continued.
  • I would only use an em dash to indicate abruptly interrupted dialogue - inside the speech marks. In TN's examples I would use an en dash. However, I wouldn't actually use them; I'd prefer to punctuate it normally.


  • "Come along..." Meredith looks to me. "What's your name again?"
  • Thank you all. And to Mr Robots, you have actually PROVEN that the old 'KISS' method is best applied here. (For those who are scratching their head: "Keep it simple, stupid.")

    You're all correct. I was overdoing the illustration of interruption. The full stops do the job they're supposed to do, and so much neater.

    Ta, P
  • Em dash does the same job:

    "Come along—" Meredith looks to me. "What's your name again?"

    I was just questioning the need for two pauses.
  • Is it an interruption, though? I get the feeling Meredith's speech would tail off, or just pause when she realises she can't remember the narrator's name. In that case, the ellipsis is probably more appropriate.

    Em-dashes are more typically used when the speaker is interrupted:

    Sarah studied the map. "I think we need to turn right at the church, and then left at the—"
    "I know the way," Tom snapped.

    Or when the speaker carries out some important action mid-sentence:

    "Ladies and gentlemen, I present to you" — he whipped the velvet cover off, revealing the architect's model — "Talkback Towers!"
  • Good point, I was just trying not to big up the ellipses too much cos I know I overuse them :P
  • So... *checks who it was* danfango, can you post an image of the model of of Talkback Towers? Because I think we all want to see it now.
  • *holds breath*
  • A few extra points:
    'Meredith bears the aggressive carriage of a lioness protecting her pride. 'Very well, Alexander. Come along--' Meredith looks to me-- 'What's your name again? Come and meet my sister, Roslyn.' '

    The first line is odd. She's not bearing/carrying the carriage of a lioness - sounds like she staggers in under the weight of a massive cage. She 'has the aggressive mien of a lioness...' perhaps.

    You don't need the second 'Meredith' as we know who is speaking.


  • Thanks Mrs Bear, and it's good to see that you were attracted by your namesake, Meredith bears . . .

    Now for the serious stuff. This really is now a bag of worms because on re-reading, another problem surfaces. The 'come along' is not a directive to Alexander, as might appear, but is the words precipitating the look to Meredith with the directive following.
    How I think I should handle it is thus:

    Meredith bears the aggressive carriage (or mien *thanks*) of a lioness protecting her pride. 'Very well, Alexander.'

    'Come along.' Meredith looks to me, 'What's your name again? Come and meet my sister, Roslyn.'

    I think re-paragraphing makes the connections much clearer.

    New thoughts?
  • Why does she ask if she doesn't wait for an answer?
  • Depends on the character, maybe. One of those pushy ignorant sorts?
  • Mr Robots. What a question!!

    Because she's a woman. We aren't rational.
  • I'm just thinking if she's ignorant/arrogant would she even ask in the first place. I'm just throwing curve balls :p
  • Well, you can keep your rusty balls.

    In full context, the question, 'What's your name again?' shows arrogance. It's actually taken from my own personality. :-*
  • edited September 2016
    How about 'Come now'? or am I missing the point entirely?

    Personally, if I back myself into a confused corner, I rewrite the whole kit and caboodle.
  • If you want to do this, you have to lose the speech mark after Alexander, to show that she continues. (You don't close the speech mark, but you have to have an opening one on the next line to show continuation.)

    ...'Very well, Alexander.

    'Come along.' Meredith looks to me, 'What's your name again? Come and meet my sister, Roslyn.'

    Then there's the comma after 'me' - that's wrong too.
    Actually, I'd lose 'Come along' altogether.

    Meredith bears the aggressive carriage (or mien *thanks*) of a lioness protecting her pride. 'Very well, Alexander.' She looks to me. 'What's your name again?' She doesn't wait for a reply.* 'Come and meet my sister, Roslyn.'

    If it's appropriate, 'She looks down at me.' That would set the authoritative tone. I'm assuming that at this point we know that the 'me' person is not Alexander, so there would be no confusion.

    *'She waves away my reply' would also work.



  • Thanks again.

    Lizy, you are right bout the confusion. Sometimes though, we are so caught up with a certain piece that we perhaps don't consider all the alternatives. I can see that here: I want my way to work. That is not always the best way forward, but is, in reality, the proper way.

    Perhaps this short snapshot does not sufficiently do the character, Meredith, justice. To put it crudely, she is a bitch. Roslyn and Alexander are siblings. The 'what's your name again' is a gate-crashing investigator.

    It has been an interesting exercise seeing all these different perspectives. Thanks to all.


  • It has been an interesting exercise seeing all these different perspectives. Thanks to all.
    This is what always happens when a question of this nature is posed on talkback. It is always fascinating and invariably helpful.
  • And the 2% of writing posts are more interesting than the 98% nonsense ones ;)
  • But the so-called nonsense ones prove that we're among friends, which in turn encourages people to feel they can ask.
  • Exactly so, Mrs Bear.
  • *pokes boredrobots in the eye* A little more enthusiasm there, laddie.
  • Well Mr Robots.
    I knew exactly what you meant. I'm all for sharing friendship in many ways, but when it comes to a writers' forum, I would rather read about 'writing' than someone enjoying pumpkin scones and Jaffa cakes!

    I don't set out to malign anyone; I guess this is yet another illustration of how this particular medium appeals to such a variety of interests.

    I'll take my 'poke in the eye' now Mrs Bear!
  • There are different threads to suit different tastes. You can ignore or join in any of them as the fancy takes you.
    I'm sorry to say I used to be pretty derisive of the 'light' threads - but these days I join in because I often find them entertaining and a nice way to relax with virtual friends.
  • Nicely put, Claudia.
  • edited September 2016
    Exactly. In the past, Claudia, I can well imagine how trivial we all sounded. Your life was nomadic and you had bigger things to consider than Jaffa Cakes. But now we have you fixed (most of the time), and writers need to do more than think about writing. Well, I do.
  • I was thinking about this just now in the kitchen. Pet hasn't been here long enough to appreciate just how remarkable this forum is. Over the years we have listened and helped each other through some pretty hardcore stuff: births, deaths, illness, divorce, financial problems, gay and transgender issues.
    Behind all those light, seemingly trivial threads runs a highly supportive group of writers.
  • Yep, TB's about a lot more than writing... but it's very good at that too!
  • Argh. There's a lot of experience of all types among all walks and all genres, and all are kind, helpful, lovely people. Well, most. The ones who aren't, we know who they are. *Snorts*.
  • Of the 28 thread titles under the announcements, 24 are totally writing-centred, 4 are general chat. That seems like a fair balance, I'd have thought.

    Writers are more than the words we put onto the screen or page - we are human beings who need support. It's a lonely job, and the ability to talk to people who understand that, about any topic under the sun, whether writing related or not, is essential. TB provides the 'coffee-room' space for those who need it - it's not compulsory to enter it, and it's only a small corner of the site, but it's there for light relief or to ask for help, or to receive unasked-for support.

    TB - the writing site that caters for all your needs.
  • Well - I wouldn't go that far. I have a fair few needs uncatered for. But if you are offering...
  • Ask, and the door shall be opened unto you. Of course, I may have run through the house and out the back way, but the offer's there.
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