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Yeah. Okay, Carol. You make a valid point, and it is true that, just like in society in general, I am in the minority here, but to be fair, I only mentioned that i thought that David Bowie was what I referred to as an actual man.
To be fair, my initial reference was about my upbringing and the need for me to find some proper male role models who I could look up to. Bowie met this criteria not only for his credentials as a male, and if I reveal that my father was a docker, he wasn't someone I could recognise as having manly qualities which I had only picked up on in classic films from yesteryear. Those like David Niven, Cary Grant, James Stewart etc.
Having no such male models when young, I guess I have had to 'fill in the gap' with looking towards celebrities for my guidance. For the 'yin and yang' as my nephew puts it, who I am trying to instill some values into, the idea of the two halves that are needed to make a whole. The reason I mentioned my sexuality, was a) because I felt under attacked and also, my need for what I would term as an actual man, compared to the disaster that was my father(male contaminated psyche) was to put things into that context. A type of man that fitted my value system...
If I have offended people on here, I must apologise, but whichever background this forum members come from, my own was quite disasterous so I am still trying to mend damage done by finding those who I can identify with that I can respect and who can give me a positive aspect to males etc that there has been a lack of in my life.
That's why I made such a fuss about Bowie. Whereas some may just see him as a serious singer, in my mind he is patching up the void that not having any positive male models when young has left me feeling adrift from others..
I'm trying my best to help give guidance to my nephew too, as he is in a similar position and, as we were quite close growing up, I can see I have made some mistakes with him and so am trying to give him an anchor with which to hold on to while he is learning to take control of his own life.. I owe him that much and am willing, able to provide this. Existential angst and all that.
So again apologies if I overstepped the mark with my comments. Just some neurosis and injunctions that were being aroused in me. Must learn to adapt. You're right..
I certainly did not take any offence at anything you wrote. I just cannot see why people of a particular persuasion or colour seem to worry so much about it. We are who we are. If others can't accept people the way they are...sod them.
Guess it's insecurity, C2. Not feeling they have a strong role to play in the Big Dialogue going on all around them, so needing to verify their sense of worth. A constant need for affirmation, not having the biggest slice in society's affairs...
Why anyone would worry about not being part of 'big dialogue' or 'big slices' whatever that is, I don't know. Live your life, if you want to do something, do it, if you don't want to, don't. Some just feel the need to keep shouting from the roof-tops, look at me, look at me. Total waste of time.
That's very true to say, C2. But having said that, if you cannot see yourself being represented in the Bigger Dialogue being mentioned everywhere, it kinda makes your own individual life seem irrelevant and of no value.
It's difficult to estimate your worth, which every one needs to do to have a healthy ego, if your entire reason for living isn't visible so that others can gauge a better understanding of your value based on your terms rather than theirs which might be entirely different to your own and so completely underestimating your value as that individual..
Now that is insulting. As an individual, I know my self worth and have the confidence to carry it off. I need no ones approval that is for sure. I am a quiet confident person, and in that context I have been respected and respectful to others.
I think you have misread what I wrote. I was referring to myself and others, in the minority, who have to live with the dominant narration in society all about them, which does not reflect their views or values. As the minority, we have to live around a value system that reduces us as individuals because it cannot reflect our lifestyles accurately. We are always being viewed as ' the other'. The ones who are an adjunct to life. That has to be accepted by us, precisely because we are in the minority, but it does mean that we are being judged and evaluated according to someone else's standards, and not our own, so are always going to be distorted, and out of context, according to another's analysis of us. Again, we accept this, as the minority, and know that our words will be misheard as they have a different value to the majority than they have for others of our community. That's why we tend to mingle within our own community where such misunderstandings are minimised as we are talking the same language and value system then and so won't clash with another's estimation of our words. It really is a case of 'talking a different language' which is why we are both having difficulties understanding each other's signs and words as they have a different meaning for us both..
Maybe you should have used words, like, 'many people cannot see themselves being represented' and not if 'you' cannot see 'yourself' being represented. If I have a grievance I do something about it. I'm quite capable of taking care of things, all by myself
That's precisely it. You're educated. I'm not, so do i not know the fineries involved in language. That is why organisations like Stonewall and the Fawcett society came into being. And the Labour party and Trade unions too. To speak up on behalf of those who are unable to do so themselves. If you come from a deprived background, as I did, you won't know how to access society in such a way as to be able to exploit it for your own benefit. Your background and education will have been reduced from one who has had certain advantages in life, so your ability to use language to help you navigate all the pitfalls in life won't be within your grasp. That's why representation of the people came into being, although it has to be said, politicians seem to be going out of their way to take back all the benefits that have been given to the poor and less fortunate over the years. Compassion seems to be in short supply these days..
Been thinking about that debate on this thread the other day. Methinks I should have been more respectful to others point of views instead of forcefully defending mine. May I apologise if I overstepped the mark. The whole idea of forums is for people to exchange ideas, not to be outspoken. So in future I will try to modify my opinions on here. Self restraint is always to be commended...
I don't think there is ever any benefit in looking at the past. You can't change it. It's happened and that is that.
It's been mentioned before about everyone's backgrounds, and how rich/educated/downtrodden members might be. It doesn't matter, and many would want to keep that private. I do think every single person has had troubles, but we are where we are now, regardless of all that.
I am proud to acknowledge that I have become fairly articulate and educated despite coming from a completely impoverished background as far as linguistics and intellect (and money!) were concerned. My (adoptive) mother was a wonderful mother, but academically was - as politely as I can describe it - 'challenged'. I had no intellectual stimulation or opportunity to extend my vocabulary at home, but so what? The world and its treasures are there for everyone to dip into, and the future is what counts; it's the only thing we have any influence over.
So, be who you are, whatever box you feel you are in. We are all human beings, and we are all entitled to be accepted, regardless of label, and, of course, to seize every opportunity to be creative and educated.
Thanks for the pep talk, TN. Guess I'm still living out my teenage traumas and need to get beyond them. Knowing that you have got beyond your origins is a good indicator that things can change...
Been looking at Facebook. Think, as my writing is still in its infancy, and coming from the background I do, that I should 'target' some ads towards this grouping. I understand them and their lifestyles better so feel I could provide stories that they might be interested in reading about. Ones that reflects their lives. I feel those that are on my social media right now aren't the ones who would pay to buy my stories. I need to experiment, get some out there to see what the reaction is...
Comments
To be fair, my initial reference was about my upbringing and the need for me to find some proper male role models who I could look up to. Bowie met this criteria not only for his credentials as a male, and if I reveal that my father was a docker, he wasn't someone I could recognise as having manly qualities which I had only picked up on in classic films from yesteryear. Those like David Niven, Cary Grant, James Stewart etc.
Having no such male models when young, I guess I have had to 'fill in the gap' with looking towards celebrities for my guidance. For the 'yin and yang' as my nephew puts it, who I am trying to instill some values into, the idea of the two halves that are needed to make a whole. The reason I mentioned my sexuality, was a) because I felt under attacked and also, my need for what I would term as an actual man, compared to the disaster that was my father(male contaminated psyche) was to put things into that context. A type of man that fitted my value system...
If I have offended people on here, I must apologise, but whichever background this forum members come from, my own was quite disasterous so I am still trying to mend damage done by finding those who I can identify with that I can respect and who can give me a positive aspect to males etc that there has been a lack of in my life.
That's why I made such a fuss about Bowie. Whereas some may just see him as a serious singer, in my mind he is patching up the void that not having any positive male models when young has left me feeling adrift from others..
I'm trying my best to help give guidance to my nephew too, as he is in a similar position and, as we were quite close growing up, I can see I have made some mistakes with him and so am trying to give him an anchor with which to hold on to while he is learning to take control of his own life.. I owe him that much and am willing, able to provide this. Existential angst and all that.
So again apologies if I overstepped the mark with my comments. Just some neurosis and injunctions that were being aroused in me. Must learn to adapt. You're right..
Not an eloquent passage of writing, but that's me
It's difficult to estimate your worth, which every one needs to do to have a healthy ego, if your entire reason for living isn't visible so that others can gauge a better understanding of your value based on your terms rather than theirs which might be entirely different to your own and so completely underestimating your value as that individual..
If I have a grievance I do something about it. I'm quite capable of taking care of things, all by myself
It's been mentioned before about everyone's backgrounds, and how rich/educated/downtrodden members might be. It doesn't matter, and many would want to keep that private. I do think every single person has had troubles, but we are where we are now, regardless of all that.
I am proud to acknowledge that I have become fairly articulate and educated despite coming from a completely impoverished background as far as linguistics and intellect (and money!) were concerned. My (adoptive) mother was a wonderful mother, but academically was - as politely as I can describe it - 'challenged'. I had no intellectual stimulation or opportunity to extend my vocabulary at home, but so what? The world and its treasures are there for everyone to dip into, and the future is what counts; it's the only thing we have any influence over.
So, be who you are, whatever box you feel you are in. We are all human beings, and we are all entitled to be accepted, regardless of label, and, of course, to seize every opportunity to be creative and educated.
Been looking at Facebook. Think, as my writing is still in its infancy, and coming from the background I do, that I should 'target' some ads towards this grouping. I understand them and their lifestyles better so feel I could provide stories that they might be interested in reading about. Ones that reflects their lives. I feel those that are on my social media right now aren't the ones who would pay to buy my stories. I need to experiment, get some out there to see what the reaction is...