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Item on the possibility of the 'perfect' murder

edited May 2007 in - Reading

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  • Not being into crime fiction- I enjoy watching tv detective shows I admit, but I wouldn't want to write them.
    So I thought this article on the BBC webpages might interest some.
    With all the forensic stuff, is the 'perfect' murder possible?

    http://newsvote.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/6632179.stm
  • A lot depends on how you define the perfect murder. At it's simplest is the case where the perpetrator will never be caught. Secodly the case were the murderer is never associated with the enquiry. At the top of the tree are those crimes which are carried out such that it is never suspeced that a crie has been committed at all. I will do a bit of research, but a large number of murders are never solved. No one will ever know how many murders are never suspected of beinfg murder.
  • That article IS very interesting, Carol. Thanks. You always come up with the goods.
  • Write and read a lot of crime fiction.  Although I don't want to spend my career doing that, and my reading tastes are just about anything that is good.

    I find the idea of a 'perfect murder' an oxymoron.  A murder robs someone of a life, and takes a way a child/parent/brother/sister/nephew
    /niece/wife/husband/boyfriend/girlfriend/cousin/
    friend.  How can that be viewed as perfect?.

    But I am going to read the article.
  • I think the slant on 'perfect' was in being able to carry such a  crime out, and not leave any forensic clues behind, which seemed difficult.
    I'm going to save the item just for future relevence to something I might write.
  • "Perfect Murder? Elvis Presley".

    I think that comment sums it all up.

    Seriously though, if anyone is interest in writing crime, I can't recommend The Dummies Guide To Forensics.  It points out the mistakes that writers make.  A lot.
  • You CAN'T recommend it? I thought it was quite nifty. Not that I write crime; I just love CSI and all that.

    Perfect murder - think Harold Shipman. The only reason he got caught was because he committed so many and eventually managed to hit on a victim with a persistent relative. Doctors and nurses are in the best position to commit murders.
  • Ever wondered how many of the suicides who jump n front of trains especially tube trains were really suicides?
  • The same with the river. Yesterday a body was taken out of the river, it had been there a while so identity is a problem. Unfortunately it will take investigation to find where he went in, as the flow of the river is very strong.
    What's to say this poor man wasn't pushed rather than deliberately drowning himself, or even unintentionally drowning.
    I had a look at the Horizon website, and I will be watching the programme if I can.
  • I meant I can't recommend it highly enough.

    But what seems like a perfect murder now, might be solved in ten years time because of advances in technology.  Think about DNA, no-one would have imagined we could do that, but here we are solving crimes that date back to the sixties.  Who knows what we will be able to do in another decade?.

    I've taken a look at the book I have mentioned, and it would be pretty difficult to make a drowning look like suicide. 

    1.  Firstly, there would be a different kind of bruising caused by impact.  The force of being shoved would create a impact like hitting a concrete wall when you hit the water.

    2.  If you were drown intentionally (rather than suicide) you will struggle to breathe causing pressure trauma to the sinuses and lungs.

    3.  If there was a struggle, there would be plants or rock from the sea/water bed in the victims hand as they struggled.

    If you committed suicide, there would be no struggle.

    Looking into the train hypothesis, but I think the same would apply.  I think the force of impact and tension in the body would affect the injuries caused by the impact of the train.
  • Thanks Stirling, that was interesting. It's an unfortunate fact that many do jump off the various bridges along the Trent, and if they aren't found before, they end up down at Stoke Bardolph where they come to a halt. The drop can sometimes be enough, or they hit junk in the water that can't be seen.
  • Something similar happened up here in the north on Bank Holiday Monday at High Falls, the guy was from Jarrow (Tyne and Wear), and with his girlfriend, and I can't remember what he was doing at the edge of the waterfall (and a powerful one at that).  One thing that everyone agrees on, it was a stupid thing to do, but obviously an accident.

    Also, another thing on our local news the Police are re-opening a cold case of a woman murdered in her back garden back in the eighties.  So, some guy is walking around thinking he has committed the perfect crime, but the Police think that the new technology can finally catch the person responsible.

    I hope they are right.  Sad, but I did A-level biology and I am fascinated by forensics.  Probably answers why I love crime fiction so much.
  • Ooh, fascinates me too Stirling, you're not the only one! Get my regular fix watching 'Forensic Detectives' and 'FBI Files' etc etc late at night on satellite TV after Daniel & my daughter have nodded off...
  • Living a 5 minute drive from Blackpool sea front we get quite a fair amount of 'Jumpers' from the Central Pier at night when the tide is in, more so in winter when the tide is at it's roughest. Sometimes never found, sometimes found washed up in Ireland, Liverpool, Wales etc - Suicide or Murder?
  • Scratch I think that is what Leopold and Loeb figured too. Only problem was that the kid was a distant cousin or something of one of them. So even though they planned every detail and it looked perfect they did miss a few tricks along with the lost glasses.
  • i did some checking on Google, the clear up rate for deaths recognized as murder is 75%.That means that even when a death is confirmed as murder 1 in 4 murderers gets clean away with it. Take into account wrongful convictions then consider deaths not recogized as murder and I think a conservative estimate would be that  there is only about an even chance that a murderer  will be brought to justice
  • But does that statistic include the likes of drink drivers killing someone?.  They are only ever charged with death by dangerous driving, where in my opinion is should be at least manslaughter if not murder.

    In Newcastle, we get a lot of jumpers from the Tyne Bridge, and once you're in the Tyne you've had it.  The problem is there must be at least a hundred pubs, bars and night clubs in the area.  Only this weekend, one very lucky young man fell from the bridge drunk, and was rescued by revellers on their way home.
  • Raising the thread to see what newbies think [was that really two and a half years ago???]

    The reason is that I'm thinking of a character being killed - a kind of vigilante murder - and I'm about 90% certain that I don't want my character to be caught. Is it possible? I know there is going to be evidence, otherwise it would be impossible. Okay, maybe not a perfect murder, just one where the killer isn't caught. Is it plausible?
  • When you look at how many cases that you hear about being revived from 25+ years ago because DNA taken at the time has now been matched from someone in jail or who had been etc.
  • We've just had one where a bloke was released after 27 years inside. He was innocent but just admitted to doing it. New DNA evidence proved the real killer committed suicide a few years after killing the girl.

    One thing that usually helps find a killer is his (or her) association with the victim. I think something like 80% of victims know their killer. Narrows down the hunt a bit doesn't it.

    Kill a complete stranger, 'that's the way to do it' (Quote from Mr Punch - politically incorrect puppet)
  • But very true.
  • [quote=scratch]Kill a complete stranger, 'that's the way to do it' [/quote]

    Isn't that what Alfred Hitchcock's film "Strangers on a Train" was all about? Two strangers who met on a train and decide to each kill someone for the other person?
  • The kill someone for someone else was even a plot in an episode of Diagnosis Murder...
  • When you think about alleged confessions from 30 years ago, and what we now know about some corrupt police officers using violence, admissions of guilt should be taken with a pinch of salt.

    I got thinking about this yesterday and I remembered a book by Jodi Picoult called The Pact. The story was around whether a young girl had been murdered or committed suicide (with a gun - even now I'm not sure!) I think that might be the way I go with the book.
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