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I really am nonplussed. Looked at a couple of new books of verse in the library and find they consist only of a series of short sentences of comments or even story like but are , to me, prose, not verse.
Verse, which I will allow, need not necessarily rhyme (though I prefer that it should) but it should have rhythm and meter. These writings are just a dissertation of random events which, again , to me, are perhaps like so-called Modern Art which are meaningless expressions of tormented minds.
IF, like modern art, this form of verse or a bad joke, it is not self explanatory it has failed to achieve any purpose and should be ignored.
Comments
If what you read really is just "a dissertation of random events" which don't express opinions and ideas, and have no sense of rhythm, then I'd probably agree with you in not considering them to be poems.
But it doesnt have to rhyme. Liz Brownlee's usually doesn't but it's definitely poetry with rhythm.
I would disagree, also. A poem can also be a poem simply by the way it is set out on the page. A poem is also visual.
The meaning is something else - sadly there is a lot of poetry from which I can discern no meaning, but that doesn't mean it's not there. My friend Kathy reads much more widely and deeply than me, a lot of ancient poetry, a lot of literary texts, a lot of history, and what to me is meaningless she can understand because it references those texts she has read. This, to me, is another sort of poetry. Not the sort I enjoy, but the sort a certain type of reader enjoys. They are almost like a puzzle and appeal to those with an intellect I do not possess! But often contain a great beauty which you can also hear when it is read aloud.
i haven't seen what you mean, pongo - can you provide a link to an Amazon copy so we can see if we can take a peek inside?
I'm with you in that if I have to dissect a poem to glean its meaning, then I can't be bothered with it. Poems - just like prose - just like art - have to make sense to me pretty much instantly. I can't be doing with anything that smacks of pretentiousness.
I do agree that the visual element can be very important. But if that's all there is, then it's an image, not a poem.
But it's horses for courses - there should be a variety of poems and just because meaning is not apparent to one person does not mean it is pretentious.
I am sure that there are people who write pretentiously. But I don't think everything I can't understand is.
We were given on the MA I did some pieces of poetry and asked to say what we thought they meant - on the 'holiday' which was part of the course - everyone, the novelists and poets and screenwriters all did the same tasks as a sort of bonding exercise. I had NO idea what the piece we were given meant but as soon as someone else cleverer than me decoded it is was like having a veil lifted. I have to say I kind of enjoyed the wrestling with that text... I'm not a person who wants to do that with an entire book but can see the appeal.
I'm sure Josh won't mind me putting this here:
A One-Word Poem That Can Make A Room Full of Small Children Laugh
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Joshua Seigal
With the rise of flash fiction and prose poetry 'what is a poem' has become more blurred than ever. A poem doesn't have to have every type of poetic structure/content, but it has to have something that distinguishes it from prose. IMO.
I think poetry is about playing with words. If the words are being played with - probably it's a poem. Prose is just conveying thoughts, ideas, emotions, stories, information.
"fings sure ain't what they used to be".
Perhaps Kilmer had it right when he wrote that he thought he would never see a poem as lovely as a tree and why.
A bugbear of mine is a poem which is actually a paragraph of prose randomly chopped up. I also hate cliche in poetry - but don't we all?
I'm not particularly fond of in-your-face-rhyme, unless it's for comic effect, but I like clever rhyme which is there, but not immediately obvious.
When I come across a good poem, I like to read it again and again so that I can appreciate every delicious mouthful of it.
And I hate it when modern poets use archaic language like 'doth'!
That poets may be out of touch
Inversions I will use astutely
If only thus to show their beaut(l)y
about you being out-of-touch
(but inversions are the Devil's tools
and only used by evil fools)
Just for some pretty poesy?
Methinks thou art of witches cursed
To criticise such comely verse!
cursed and verse it's asinine...
pretty poesy my arse
more like anachronistic farce
Please don't fight
I'm settling down
For a peaceful night!
don't get in such a tizzy
we love each other dearly
just a fun fight really
But a spat in verse is kinda swell
(sorry)
One cannot argue with a fool
If that's the kind of filth you utter
The foulest verbiage from the gutter
Then I this game shall no more play
Farewell I bid thee, and good day
and more than that and what is worse is
you will never read this on this thread
for you have gone and up and fled...