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Could we turn a book into a bestseller?

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  • Yes. I've got a feeling that the throwing 'a lot of money at it' is as vital, if not more vital, than it being a popular genre and well written. I heard somewhere that it costs publishers thousands of pounds to get a title put in the window of a Waterstones branch. Don't know if that's true (I bet it is!), but it would certainly be one more frustrating and unfair reason why the smaller publishers' titles can struggle.
  • And there have been a lot in independent book shops that have closed, and these bookshops seem to be the better bet for local writers trying to get their book stocked and sold.
    The crime writer I was speaking to last weekend was saying that you had to do promotion yourself especially.
  • edited September 2009
    At the beginning of this discussion, I wrote:

    "Could we turn a book into a bestseller?

    "If everyone on Talkback bought it. And they told their friends. And they told theirs. And everyone told their libraries/asked to borrow it. And told their reading groups and writers' groups. And gave it as a birthday/Christmas present. And wrote reviews on Amazon. And ... Well, you get the idea.

    "Could we?

    "Would it snowball - or would it stand a snowball's chance in hell?"

    Well, over 100 people answered the quick survey to find out how many active members there are on Talkback.
  • However, active members of TB - if all bought a members' book, it would certainly help hers/his royalities. The problem is selecting an author/title. :)
  • edited December 2009
    Well, they did it with the Christmas No 1.
  • I think we should use MY book.

    Seriously tho, folks, the book would have to be very appealing for some reason. The Twilight factor. Not just sex (or romance if you prefer) but some added ingredient. Call it a gimmick if you insist. The scandal idea suggested by Lou is on the right lines. We would need to let it be know that this book does wonders for one's sex life. A guaranteed winner - a life changer. And don't give me any of this 'just for YAs' nonsense; this will grab all ages, all types, all sexes. In fact sexual relations will never be the same again, as it will say on the cover. Just picking it up and handling it acts as an aphrodisiac. It's the book to read together (in pairs of in groups). In a newly created genre all of its own that any publishing house will throw zillions at: Pillow Books, or PNPs for short (Pillows-No-Pyjamas).

    So what we would need is a book where you pretty quickly lose interest in the reading because your mind will wander rapidly into more captivating areas - get writing folks - and a PR/sales team who will market it. Who knows who? cos what we need is networking.

    Oh and the other thing is: TBers will share the profits.
  • I have a lot of friends who've said to me they can't wait to be able to go into the shops and pick up a copy of my book, like it'll be their claim to fame -- they knew me when I was just sitting by them in the call centre, pulling pints with them in such-and-such pub, attending classes in school or uni with them, or settling bets with them in the bookies'. This is, of course, fantastic to hear, but the interesting thing about this in terms of having a mine of ready-made potential readers (and fans!! ;)) is that I'm friends with them on facebook, too.
    Because of the general tone and subject of my status updates, I get messages from a lot of people encouraging me, and asking how my writing is going. So if I have 180-odd people on my facebook, and say, half of them buy my book (when it comes out. Not IF. WHEN) and recommend it to all of their facebook and real-life friends, and half of them buy and reccommend it, etc, etc, I don't think it would take long for my book to do well.
    I reckon I'm probably quite naive about this, but the way I see it, I reccommended Twilight to the hilt, and I've got a little crew of Twilight-obsessives in work now, and from converting my sister to the religion that is Edward Cullen, she has systematically clawed dozens more into the fold on the forums she goes onto on the internet, and now more in her new work. Word of mouth is a powerful thing, and the internet is the perfect medium for that.
    And, fabulous person that she is, my sis has been bigging up my work since I started writing my books at the beginning of the year, "If you loved Twilight, my sister's book will blow you away...", and there are a fair few on her forums dying to read my books. I may employ her as my publicist when my books get published!! :D

    *SA*
  • Are you known on Twilight fansites SA?

    I know this is frowned on, but if you were known to the fans and a comitted member, when you are published you could mention it. That's a HUGE fan base to be a part of.
  • edited December 2009
    [quote= Dwight]Pillow Books, or PNPs for short (Pillows-No-Pyjamas).[/quote]

    I wondered why they weren't called Bed-No-Pyjamas, then I realized.
  • [quote=Stirling]Are you known on Twilight fansites SA?
    [/quote]

    Nope. Maybe I should be, but no. I have a look-see on those sites to see if there is any news on the films, etc, but I don't post on them. The only forum I regularly post on is here. If I got into posting on those sites, my procrastination levels would explode through the ceiling. I'm starting to think I should have a blog though.
    A uni friend of mine has done really well for himself as a writer. He's been co-writing books that go along with a fantasy role-playing game for a couple of years, and has just had his first solo book published a couple of months ago, with his second coming out next year. I've been reading his blog and it's really funny.
    I read something the other week that said a lot of the publicising for debut authors today comes through blogs and social networking sites, as it helps to show agents and publishers that you have an established fanbase salivating at the thought of reading your book. I don't even know how to begin with the blog thing, so for now I'm just thinking about it.

    *SA*
  • Most of my friends seem to be jealous of my "success". They seem to think because I've a book published I'm going to be famous and I'm in need of being brought back to earth! A friend who bought it (although she admits not to have read it) comments that I write weird books with aliens to other friends!

    So I don't think this would work with me. My immediate family is very supportive and have bought it, bless them. I don't think I'm going to be on the best sellers list if I had to rely on my family and friends though!

    I think my cyber friends have been more supportive tbh.

    Nobody else have this?
  • Yep, I know what you mean. :(
  • To be fair, the people I'm thinking of aren't great readers anyway.
  • How about this for a catchy title:

    The Right Way To Load A Dishwasher.
  • Maybe I'll use it in a story.
  • Hi Jay and the rest of the T/Br's. I have been following your ideas and suggestions to make a best seller and what we need to help is a little marketing. Now possibly my idea will not make a best seller out of your book but it 'could' double sales., providing your book has the basic qualities needed. Is there an authentic part to your story line, or could you possibly make one. Let me explain a little more. My first book, 'A time For Living' ( and notice the plug) is concerned with an attempt by terrorists to explode a nuclear bomb in central Birmingham. How to accomplish this and and at the same time market the book was a problem I was faced with. I decided that carrying the bomb from London to Birmingham by a canal boat could solve both problems. By using authentic places, locks, bridges, restaurants, pubs, museums and villages I could create a demand for the book. The problem was, to write a thriller without it sounding like a travelogue. I had to weave the places into the plot somehow which I hope I have achieved by various means.
    I have produces a small poster (A4 size) with a picture of the book, a brief 'selling type' synopsis, reviews of the book
    (from youwriteon reviewers. such as -- Compulsive reading - keeps the reader engaged - Good and fast action with Sex and violence'-Very much in the style of James Bond without the gadgets)
    If I can get better ones I'll use them
    To every restauarant, pub, museum and shop that is mentioned in the book, I send a couple of posters with a letter asking them to display the poster and with an extract of their part in the book. eg In my story 'A Time for Living' the two characters visit a small pub in a village. It is in fact the only pub in the village. With a bit of luck if the poster is displayed the pub landlord would buy a copy and maybe a few of the villagers too. This principle applies to all the restaurants and pubs between London and Birmingham and beyond that my two characters visited, Of course they couldn't visit all the pubs and restaurants but a mention may help. By now you will have got the idea behind it, now I need a little help. To anyone who lives in London, in the Brentford area particularly. At Bulls Bridge, on the Grand Union canal is a Tesco supermarket.Two of my character shop for food and clothing there and have a snack in the cafeteria. My problem is--- Is there a cafeteria in that Tesco's???? If so I can name it and drop a couple of posters and a letter to the manager. You never know????? I have prepared a couple of dozen posters to send to seven places and two restaurants. One big one in Wolverhampton. It may not work in every case but the postage will be worth it. I also know of web sites that are frequented by canal enthusiasts which I intend to call on. There you have it. Is it possible for your work to be slightly amended to take advantage of this idea. I expect it to double my normal sales (If I have to use it)
    Come on then - comments please. remember the book title 'A Time for Living'.
  • In these terrorist sensitive times, would someone who owns a pub or restaurant want anything to do with publicising something( book) that might suggest to its visitors/customers that it could be connected to (even though fictional ) a terrorist plot?
    I don't think so...
  • edited January 2010
    OK Carol I feel I must point out that both characters know nothing about the nuclear device and it's not even mentioned until after most of the visits. The references are are all complimentary about the decor, atmosphere, food etc and are used as a vehicle to move the story forward. Most of this section is concerned with the growing romance between the two characters and visits to restaurants and pubs fit in nicely with the plot. I do not expect for one minute that these establishments will baulk at a bit of free publicity and it is the book they are concerned with, not the terrorist contents. My research of one or two places near to my home suggests it will be OK. and the idea can be applied to all sorts of genre. A romance would be ideal with a visit to a restaurant so that the man can propose or something????
  • edited January 2010
    Sorry to put such a downer on the idea, but you only need to look at what happened to places that were bombed a few years ago.
    Any other subject matter it might stand a chance of working.

    Just seen your comment that crossed with mine.
    The fact that the couple don't know what they are carrying worries me- you really will have had to work out how. I would never carry something for someone else unless it was someone I knew and had seen what it was.If it was commercial there would be documentation.
    Or is it hidden on the boat?
    Small companies might not mind publicity but chains might.
  • You will have to read the book to see how it's done. Commercial - documentation - hidden etc .. It is all explained and as an ex narrowboat owner, believe me, entirely feasible. Remember the title 'A Time for Living' and when you have read it please go on to the second book in the trilogy, 'A Time for Crying'. (It's the way I tell 'em)
  • Certainly a different approach...
  • LizLiz
    edited January 2010
    Perhaps Jay you could write a best selling pamphlet for women to give to men on the right way to load a dishwasher? I do have a good spatial awareness, but my OH can fit only halfof what I can in the dishwasher, and the way he loads would never get anything clean. It seems awful to complain when he does clear up after meals (and make the same meals) but quite honestly I'd rather do it myself.

    Edit to say sorry about subject change there... but at mo can only read short comments...
  • [quote=louise]Most of my friends seem to be jealous of my "success". They seem to think because I've a book published I'm going to be famous and I'm in need of being brought back to earth! [/quote]

    Interesting. My relatives and some of my friends are quite keen to avoid acknowledging that I spend all day writing. If pressed, they like to suggest that it's easy. And heaven forbid we should get onto the subject that this is how I earn money. I think they only thing that has stopped the full weight of their ire is that my stuff is published for companies, not the consumer press!

    My marketing gut tells me that, like most consumer products, books need either a load of money behind them or phenomenal viral marketing (=word of mouth with knobs on). Problem with the latter is that it's now heavily infected with commercial efforts, which will eventually swamp those of the individual.

    And I don't know any book shop (head office) buyers, but certainly the other markets I've moved in require financial contributions towards promotional displays. This has been the norm for at least twenty years (I seem to recall a tea company paying £45,000 for a two-week display in one of the lesser supermarket chains even then), and I imagine the book shops are the same.

    Still, if publishers are having to revamp the way they do things because of rapid change in genres and routes to market, there is a chance that talent will start talking again. Really -
  • I am amazed at the enthusiasm of T/B'rs to this problem. Mabh has the right idea when she talks about advertising.
    In order to sell we have to create a demand and the only way we can do this is by advertising. The first step in our advertising campaign is to tell all our friends and relatives and persuade them to buy a book. Maybe we can give them a flyer about the book to give to their friends etc. maybe we can stick a small poster in the window of our local shop, business, book store etc to widen the scope. Maybe we can send a couple of posters to a friend who lives a long way away and get him to get his local shop to put up a poster. Maybe we can persuade a local book store to stock a few copies and help to promote his business. If the book has a particular location or setting, can we use that to promote the book. The bigger the scope of coverage the bigger the sales. One disadvantage we have is that buyers will usually have to order the book and not pick one up at their local shop.
    Maybe we can find a sponsor who is willing to pay for advertising. Maybe a page in the Mail, Mirror or Sun. If you know of one please let me know, but don't discount anything that will help.

    Please, please could we have some comments(Constructive)
  • Well, sending flyers to writers' groups and asking them to display them to members.
    We get most stuff by e-mail now so it gets sorted and sent round the e-mail system, and may or may not get read. So hard copy does get put out and looked at more.
  • [quote=Carol]In these terrorist sensitive times, would someone who owns a pub or restaurant want anything to do with publicising something( book) that might suggest to its visitors/customers that it could be connected to (even though fictional ) a terrorist plot?
    I don't think so... [/quote]

    I agree with you there Carol, my novel has a kidnapping happening in a Newcastle nightclub. I really don't want to upset any of the owners (never know when I might need a favour!) so I made up a fictional club in a real area of Newcastle.

    As for marketing, the more creative the better Colt. Always use up all avenues of free publicity. Interesting local media; arranging talks; getting some work published in magazines; arrange some sort of gimmick to celebrate the launch but get the local newspaper out . . .

    Warning: no flame wars, you'll get a bad reputation.
  • edited January 2010
    I take your comments Stirling & Carol but we are talking about a book not a bomb. One of the public houses I am in contact with have sent me an E mail to say they would be pleased to promote the book and if I wanted they would sell a few copies for me. A synopsis of the book has been sent to them and they are well aware of the plot.and the extract about there establishment in it. One of them has even suggested a minor change. 'They have a ghost' they want people to know about.
    Following your conclusions I can't see any book shop selling a bomb story without worrying if it would affect them too. Come off it, let's get practical. It's a book for goodness sake. I appreciate the comments about local papers, talks, launches etc but if you are going to get a best seller you have to go much further afield. Most of us would automatically use up all the local avenues
    Never mind!!! the proof will be in the pudding and I'll certainly keep the site informed of all the results. I was just throwing a few ideas around for discussion and I must point out that at no time is any terrorist (or bomb) associated with the restaurants, pubs, museums etc. The protagonists are merely eating, drinking, sight seeing and generally making conversation. Stirling is quite right when he says a kidnapping in a Night Club would not endear the Night club to the book. You woud probably find yourself being sued for that. The rule is, say only nice things and nothing derogatory in any sense. Promote the place and they will promote you. If you still doubt my idea look on the net at pubs and see the remarks that people make about the service, quality of food etc. That's not good advertising although there is a saying 'any advertising is good advertising (Look at Rushdie) How many books did he sell???
    Carry on discussing it, I'm sure all this has made somebody a liitle more aware of the ideas that could be used.
  • Let's just say that Ian Rankin was just researching a book when Lothian police made him prime suspect in a murder inquiry.
  • With viral marketing it's best to think back to basics as 'word of mouth' or guerilla marketing. As soon as you move onto flyers, posters and formal advertising, you 'look' like mainstream, but not done properly. Also these methods are pricey.

    A better start would be to make friends with your local press. Then bookshops and any other establishments that are relevant owing to plot or just your local area. Offer yourself to do talks for everyone from the library to the WI. And also online bloggy type stuff - and put all your writing friends' stuff on your site (or links), so that they can reciprocate in due course!

    Of course, we all fancy the idea of looking like a massively backed, mainstream effort, but our attempts to reproduce it wouldn't look quite the part, and people have a really strong gut reaction against bad advertising. Better to do the viral stuff well.

    Also, the truly new never show up mainstream in the first place. And we are truly new, aren't we?
  • New, improved ...
  • edited January 2010
    new improved what?

    Or are you parodying soap powder advertising (seems fair...)?

    Truly new is so much more alluring.
  • Detergents. Free plastic flower with every purchase!
  • edited January 2010
    ... wasn't there a free plastic flower with every new model Beetle? At least, they all seemed to have one in their integral dashboard vase. Seemed a strange incentive to me ;)

    More to the point, you're a published author - how do you promote your work? Chuck us a crumb...
  • I lie naked across every new book in the window of Waterstone's. It terribly successful.
  • All very good comments but at the end of the day I just want to sell as many books as I can. If I print off a couple of dozen small posters and as a result, get some books sold. then fine. Of course I will automatically do all the local stuff but this should spread it a little more and who knows??? I hope I get arrested for this, the publicity will make me famous and then my books will sell. Keep it coming!!!
  • I hope it works Colt. :)
  • [quote=Mabh]More to the point, you're a published author - how do you promote your work? Chuck us a crumb... [/quote]

    Mabh, I've just upped the thread re publicity. That may help.
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