Action and dialogue. Help needed please

kado

I have been told I sometimes mix tenses when I put action with dialogue.

Examples:

‘You did the right thing,’ he said, holding her.

Was told this should be: as he held her.

‘Of course we will,’ he said, smiling at Laura.

Was told this should be: as he smiled at Laura.

A lot of writers use the same method. It also gets rid of the ubiquitous ‘as he/as she’ when describing action.

I think all the examples are correct, just put in a different way. What do you think?

flyingtart

I agree. I use the same technique and find it less clunky than the "corrections". Who told you they were wrong?

kado

Glad you agree. It was other writers I know who told me.

Webbo

maybe a higher grammatical authority could correct us all here, but to my mind, your sentences are fine, and as FT says, avoid the clunky phrase.
Going out on a limb, so please somebody correct me if I'm wrong: my guess is that your friends are classing "holding" as a gerund (ie a noun formed from a verb) which, strictly speaking, were discouraged in adverbial phrases like yours, but are nowadays perfectly acceptable to all but the most stringent of editors. (Those same editors would have a field day with that sentence, but I hope you can follow me!)
I can't think of the correct way to form that sentence adverbially if "holding her" is not it.

Webbo

Frustrated that I'm unsure about the answer to this. Some googling unearthed this, which gets relevant after about four or five pars.
http://www.onestopenglish.com/section.asp?docid=146364&catid=59427

Lou Treleaven

Sounds fine to me, kado. In fact I prefer your examples.

flyingtart

Just had a look in Strunk and White and I think it might be a participial phrase.

Check this out: http://mongryl.com/grammarshed/participial.phrases.html

Dwight

Mind you, FT, the lines in the grammarshed link are all terrible examples of telling, not showing.

I go with 'holding her', kado.

Nutmeg

your example

You did the right thing,’ he said, holding her.

is better than "as he held her" but do you really need to "he said"... will the reader know who you are talking about? We've just been talking about dialogue ( :D ) in prose (creative writing BA) and sometimes you don't need the "he said" "she said" stuff... it does depend tho. Maybe you can put. "You did the right thing." He held her..." or something...
same with

"of course we will." He smiled at Laura.

I'm trying to cut down on my he said she said stuff but sometimes i know it is necessary. Try reading some books that don't use he said, she said a lot and see how they do it. I think Anthony Horowitz does it well (i may be wrong...i read the books a year or so ago now!) and if you're interested in the genre, the book we were given to read was Red Dragon by Thomas Harris.

Hope this helps

flyingtart

[quote= Dwight]mind you, FT, the lines in the grammarshed link are all terrible examples of telling, not showing.[/quote]
Ha ha, Dwight! That's a whole other argument! :)

Claudia

I agree that Kado's original sentence reads more easily. Another way of expressing it could be:

He held her. 'You did the right thing.'

He smiled at Laura. 'Of course we will.'
OR, even tighter:
He smiled. 'Of course we will.'

That cuts the need for the "he saids" too.

kado

Thanks for all the responses; I have found them useful.

Phots Moll

Your sentences do seem fine, but you've not shown them in the context of the story. For example

"‘You did the right thing,’ he said, holding her." Is correct if your whole story is told in present tense. If the rerst of the story is in past tense then the tag should indeed be "as he held her."

The trick is to ignore the dialogue (which will always be in present tense) and check your speech tags and actions against the rest of the narrative.

flyingtart

Phot's Moll said: "'You did the right thing,' he said, holding her." Is correct if your whole story is told in present tense.

I don't agree, Phot's Moll. The sentence you quote is in past tense, both the speech itself ("You did" rather than "You do" ) and the tag "he said". If it were present tense, as you say, it would be "he says".

Phot's Moll said: "The trick is to ignore the dialogue (which will always be in present tense)"

I'm not sure what you mean by this. As already pointed out the sentence quoted is in past tense. In fact most dialogue is in past tense.

neil

[quote=flyingtart]I don't agree, Phot's Moll. The sentence you quote is in past tense, both the speech itself ("You did" rather than "You do" ) and the tag "he said". If it were present tense, as you say, it would be "he says".[/quote]

Exactly.