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Which Version?

Do you write preventive or preventative? (the former for me every time)

Adviser or advisor? (again the former every time)

In my dictionary 'preventive' has two distinct definitions, while 'preventative' has only one word of definition next to it - 'preventive'.

And 'adviser' does offer 'advisor' as an alternative, but it points out that this version is disputed. On the Job Centre website, however, they seem to be seeking far more sales advisors than sales advisers.

I may be wrong, but I think these are examples of words being mis-spelled so often that the mis-spelling has become the dominant version and the poor old original has declined to the point of endangerment, like hordes of grey squirrel advisors overrunning the habitat of the more timid red squirrel advisers.

And I have a load of books on criminology but I am yet to see an example of someone being sentenced to five years' preventative detention.

Comments

  • Is advisor used more in the States?

    And there are some words ending in "ic" which can also be spelt/spelled "-ical". Somtimes the shorter version is used more often; sometimes it's the longer one that's more common.
  • edited October 2010
    And what about Microsoft where (UK) English seems to be spelt/spelled -ise even though -ize is perfectly all right?
  • Yes there are many examples of words that require us to apply personal preference. But I don't see what purpose the word 'preventative' serves. Why do we need two words that have exactly the same meaning? 'Preventive' is clear enough and besides, for example, we don't have 'directative' as an alternative to 'directive'.

    *checks dictionary just in case* :-D
  • It's always irritating, isn't it? I could waste so much time agonising over spelling differences - instead I just try to go with my gut instinct.
  • Yes claudia - consistency is important whichever version you choose. I always write focusing, but I know that focussing is accepted as well, and there are many more. It is a bit irritating that there are different ways to spell lthe same word, but as long as I'm not faced with the choice of 'mate' or 'm8', I'll survive ;-)
  • COS, I spent hours and hours translating a medieval report into an 8000 word article for an academic journal. There the spelling was extremely inconsistent, but that is how language evolves. There has to be different ways of spelling different words if language is to move on, as it must. I tend to go with what feels right, and more than that, what looks right on the page.
  • Yes Dorothy I know that language has to evolve and that is fine. I'm not sure though that having two versions of the same word achieves anything in the evolutionary process. Adviser/advisor, focused/focussed etc have unnecessary variations that can only cause confusion. If the OED were to ditch these cop out versions that sit on the subs bench waiting to be brought into play, then the main victor would be clarity. After all, every time a new variant of a word is created it adds more text to the dictionary. There are already sufficient new words of their own standing without this extra and unnecessary burden.

    I remember clearly at night school English class the teacher corrected a pupil for writing focussed with the double s. This pupil could have shown the teacher the dictionary and put him in his place. If there was only one way to spell the word then confusions such as this would not arise. We don't NEED two ways to spell focused - one will do fine.
  • but who uses a dictionary? I paid a fortune for the Shorter Oxford English Dictionary and only use it when attempting to track down medieval words.
    Today's people, if I can say that, won't rush to a dictionary to find 'focussed' and 'advisor', if they did we would not have 46 mis-spelled signs on the Mail website to look at... everyone is pushing the boundaries of the language all the time. How long before some of the classic mis-spellings become accepted?

    I also think teachers need to take a lot of responsibility for this - when my daughter was just 7 (29 years ago) the teacher told the class not to worry about the spelling, just get the sense on the paper.

    You will also find, by comparison, that the Americans spell differently to the English and that too is being drawn into the language. The whole world is one melting pot of language and duplicated words, going without the dictionary is better, every time, go with what feels right and looks right and avoiding being pedantic about it, will make for a better flow of writing. I do not go check out the words, if it doesn't look right/feel right then there are alternatives and that is what I will use.
  • I use a dictionary. And words are underlined for me by Word, Pages and my computer, all of which tell me when a word is misspelled and tell me how to spell it correctly. My children were also told to get sense down onto the paper, but once the flow was out then they went back and checked the spellings and wrote it out correctly.

    Use alternatives? The English language has many shades of meaning all represented by the greatest variety of words available to anyone in the world. Some are synonyms, but most have a slightly different feel, edge, implication, sound, weight, rhythm... if I choose a word I certainly wouldn't want to use another simply because I couldn't spell it.

    Ok, some words are spelled very oddly, but unless we stick to some sort of rules it will become increasingly difficult to get the sense of anything.
  • To tackle this problem we have devised a plan comprising three main elements.

    Sorry about that unmarked quote, folks. It illustrates the correct usage of language which has been corrupted by estate agents, probably in an attempt to clarify things for house purchasers who may have been confused otherwise: The property comprises of three bedrooms, two receptions, kitchen and bathroom.

    I used to be annoyed when I met 'comprises of', but hey, what the heck. Same with any other misuse or variation. I suppose we could allow ourselves to get worked up by the authorial snobbery of littering one's writing with foreign language tags: the sine qua nons, shadenfreudes and raison d'etres. All part of life's rich tapestry.
  • I'm not a constable in the grammar police who puts pen to paper in complaint at the splitting of an infinitive on the radio. If I hear someone say 'comprised of' it passes without comment - unless it has been written or said by someone who should know better. But we are straying from my OP a bit and I don't really want to get into a discussion on whether it matters if someone who is paid handsomely for their ability to communicate the English language to others can't differentiate between 'fewer' and 'less'.

    What I am saying is that we have no need for adviser AND advisor. The gradual replacing of the former with the latter will not enrich or advance the English language one bit. It is like a joiner having two identical hammers, but one is blue and the other red. They both do exactly the same job and one is no better than the other - so why on earth does he have two when one would do the job?

    If I had the power to update the dictionary there would only be adviser. Anything else would be plain wrong.

    So ner ;-)
  • edited October 2010
    Yes, well.

    If, to hammer home the analogy, and play devil's advocate purely for thread reasons, COS, our joiner's original blue handled hammer had served him handsomely since the days of his apprenticeship but he found the slight modification in the weighting/shape of the handle of his recent and practically identical red handled hammer, I suspect his old blue one would spend more time at the bottom of the toolbox and he'd go with the one he prefered.
  • Good point. But while his red hammer may be a slight improvement on the original, 'advisor' is no better than 'adviser' It is a needless modification that serves no purpose (and I shall write 'adviser' till I turn up my toes). In fact, surely it is simpler to explain to someone learning the English language that 'adviser' is derived simply by attaching an 'r' to the end of the word 'advise'. I know there are exceptions (terminate/terminator for a quick example) but surely words such as ride/rider, grate/grater and strange/stranger etc. are easier to learn because there is only the addition of a single letter and no other changes to the structure of the original word.

    So really having two hammers only adds unnecessary weight to his tool bag ;-)
  • well that hammers the point home - but I prefer preferred to Dwight's prefered
  • [quote=Betsie]I prefer preferred to Dwight's prefered [/quote]

    That's hit the nail on the head :-D
  • Could that be because 'prefered' is wrong? Careless of me.
  • We all make the odd tpyo

    :-D
  • While I was cooking me banana porridge earlier I had the radio on (5 Live) and the newsreader said, 'The Commonwealth Games finally gets under way in Dehli today.'

    Nit picking? Quite possibly, but someone typed that script for her to read and this person, who clearly doesn't understand the rules of the plural form, is collecting a wage packet for efforts such as this.

    I'm sure you all know that the FA Cup final (singular) gets under way while the Commonwealth Games (plural) get under way. While we are all trying to have work accepted and we pore over every character to ensure we submit our best effort, someone at the BBC is dashing off slipshod writing and being paid for it.

    Would such a fundamental error get past your radar?
  • more than that, it's the appalling way the news is being read ... yesterday on the Coast the newsreader seemed to think if the word had a capital letter, Birmingham, it had to be said Very Loud ... and yes, some of the grammar is dreadful! (but it comes from Sky, so what do you expect???)
  • edited October 2010
    Hmm. I think I might sometimes say the Commonwealth Games is ... But whether it'd be justifiable, I don't know. Oliver's Army, anyone?

    The Wages of Sin is death.
  • edited October 2010
    I think the French have a committee to decide how (new) words should be spelled/spelt. And to ensure (new) foreign words are not absorbed into the language i.e. they coin a new French word.
  • [quote=Jay Mandal] I think I might sometimes say the Commonwealth Games is [/quote]

    But it depends on the context. The Commonwealth Games is second only to the Olympics, for example, treats the CGs as a single collective object and so takes 'is'.

    But would you say the Commonwealth Games is under way, or the Commonwealth Games are under way? Are every time for me.
  • Me too CoS.
  • (I noticed that in this morning's sports bulletin the reader informed us that 'the Commonwealth Games are under way...')
  • I would only use singular for Commonwealth Games in a very particular way, as in CoS's example.
    If you really want to frustrate yourself, try it with bands. I saw a newspaper fly sheet today, "McFly rocks local school".
    "The Beatles was a group" seems to be the most grammatically sound, but "The Beatles were a group" sounds right - even though you're then doubling up the false plural onto both the name and the (singular) "group". And even if the band name is a singular entity, it still sounds wrong. "Blur was a band from Essex".
  • How about the group "10,000 Maniacs"?
  • You're quite right, Jay. In France, the Academie Francaise controls 'official' new words, while outlawing others, to preserve the purity of their language. Daft idea. It's a recipe for a dead language, not a vibrant and living one.
  • [quote=Dwight]the Academie Francaise controls 'official' new words, while outlawing others, to preserve the purity of their language.[/quote]

    but it's a touch of the Canute syndrome isn't it? They haven't been able to stop 'le weekend', 'le jersey' etc, and I think 'laptop' sounds much sexier than 'ordinateur' n'est pas?
  • [quote=dorothyd]but who uses a dictionary? I paid a fortune for the Shorter Oxford English Dictionary and only use it when attempting to track down medieval words.[/quote]

    I bought the Shorter OED a number of years ago and use it regularly.
  • DB, I tend to use Dictionary.com as I work in an office with the door closed and the dictionary is in the lounge...
  • [quote=dorothyd]DB, I tend to use Dictionary.com as I work in an office with the door closed and the dictionary is in the lounge... [/quote]

    I too use the Internet sometimes, but also like to use the SOED even though it means going downstairs to the library. One thing I like about using a book dictionary is seeing other words on the page which can lead to several minutes following other words around the dictionary. Besides, dictionary.com is American.
  • yes, it is, but it's good enough for a quick spell check. DB, I can't afford the time to be distracted! My work sessions are tightly regulated, like tonight, 10 pages of revision on one book and a further 1000 words on another. The pressures of keeping to 3 (hopefully 4) books a year demands total commitment from me. Spirit get it, too!
  • King James(')?
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