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In a Quandry

edited March 2014 in - Writing Problems
I recently subbed my novel to Robert Hale Publishers. They asked for a full ms which I took up to their offices. They turned it down. When I went to collect the ms a very nice guy told me that it had been turned down more due to the length than the content. He said their preferred length was 70,000 words, despite the fact that their website says they prefer novels between 80,000 - 110,000.
I e-mailed and asked whether they would reconsider if I cut it to 70,000 words. He confirmed that that was their prefered length but they felt that cutting it that much would take the heart out of the story.
I thought I could cut some of the back-story but it's the back-story that makes the character do what she does. I now realise he was right.
I am thinking of putting it on Kindle as an e-book. Is there a preferred length for e-books on Kindle? What do other writers think? Should I cut it or leave it as it is. Its 96,000 words. I can reasonably cut it to 90,000 but any more would, as the man said, take the heart out of the story.

Comments

  • With Kindle the length isn't such an issue.

    It may be that when it's edited you'll find you can reduce it it bit more.
  • That publisher wanted short (shorter than was stated, which isn't helpful); but what he's saying is that your story needs the extra length, and that to cut it would damage it. You think you could go down to 90k without difficulty, but only if there is extraneous matter that shouldn't be there. If you have cut as much as you dare, and are satisfied, then publish at that length. When you're publishing on Kindle, yours are the rules - just be sure that it's edited and proof-read to within an inch of its life!
  • Did you sub it anywhere else, Casey? If they were interested and only turned it down because of length I would be sending it everywhere before self-publishing.
  • I know that we find for using Createspace that a novel over 100,000 is not viable to publish because you simply can't price it in a way that will sell. The economic limit is really slightly below that. It may well be that whatever margin they expect in paperback they can only achieve at the 70,000 level.
  • Thanks you all. I think Mrs B is right, it does need the extra length. I take Mutley's point about the 70,000 which is why they said it wasn't a viable financial proposition. Just wish they'd put that on their website.
    Yes Liz. I've had five full ms requests, all turned down due to 'current market conditions'. The first Agent said things happened too quickly and she'd like more description. I've re-written according to her comments which is why I now have the problem of extra length. I have a feeling that 'current market conditions' may mean they want shorter novels.
    Very appreciative of all you comments.
  • 'current market conditions' may mean they want shorter novels.

    I'm afraid it's a kind way of saying they've heaps of submissions and have to be very selective in what they choose. Think about it. An agent is in there to earn commission on what he/she can 'sell' to a publisher. So he's got to be convinced of its merit otherwise he''ll be wasting his time and not earn any money. So agents, with so much to choose from, can be - and are - very picky. Just keep sending the script out. I contacted 11 before hooking one.
  • A few quotes first then a question:

    "Its 96,000 words."
    "I e-mailed and asked whether they would reconsider if I cut it to 70,000 words."
    "I can reasonably cut it to 90,000"

    I don't mean to pick or come across like a mean person, but I'm curious. How can you write 96,000 words on a novel and then think that you may be able to cut out 26,000 words just like that? How can you even think you can chop out 6k on a whim?

    In my opinion, if you think you can cut them out to get a sale or hit a lower word count target then they might as well already be removed.

    Cut it back as hard as you can without ruining it. Keep the essence of the story, make sure it flows and remove as much unnecessary content as you feel you can.

    I'd expect being asked to remove 6k words shouldn't feel at all easy. 10k (about 10%) should be a real challenge, but doable (with some cursing). And only then if you've been given some pretty good offers. Back to the point I made earlier, if you can easily consider cutting 6k or more words, then they shouldn't be there.

    Otherwise, I'm annoyed for you that the publisher seems to have moved the goal post. Writing to one limit and then being given a drastically different one after you're done must be heartbreaking.

    Good luck with whatever you decide to do with your work, but stick to your guns and try offering it around elsewhere when you're happy with the final length.
  • Laevus makes a very good point there!
    Also echo his commiserations to you, Casey - publishers moving goal posts is infuriating.
  • I'v decided to do-it-myself and put it on Kindle. I've cut to 92,000 words but with Kindle length isn't an issue. In fact it's very liberating to have the freedom to write what you want to write and not have to conform to the opinions of agents and publishers who want a different story to the one you've written. The other good thing is that you don't have to write a synopsis. It's also good to know that success or failure is in my own hands. I'll sink or swim by my own efforts. Wish me luck.
  • Best of luck with it, Casey - let us know how you get on with the process and the results.
  • Good luck!
  • It's also good to know that success or failure is in my own hands. I'll sink or swim by my own efforts. Wish me luck.
    Wishing you the best of luck, casey!
  • Good luck, Casey.
  • You've pretty much listed the reasons I've been set on self publishing for a while. It's scary and a lot of hard work, but I find it more appealing than chasing editors and collecting rejections.

    Good luck Casey, I hope it goes well for you! Make sure to drop in as soon as you start getting sales and share the good news :D
  • Good luck to you too Laevus. Let us know how you get on.
    Thanks to everyone for their support.
  • Casey, I've also read about people putting their novels into say 6 parts and giving the first part away free or at a very low price, so that people who like it buy all 6 parts.

    I really feel for you about Robert Hale. If they want books at 70, 000 words, they really should say that. It's tough enough for authors without publishers saying one thing and meaning another.
  • Robert Hale have always had a different word length compared to the standard.
  • My penny's worth, I've recently had 3 rejections from different sources - 2 agents and one small publisher - well I think I actually had 21 rejections (keep a spreadsheet -saddo!! ) anyway these 3 in particular made some comments and one was about the length it was 92,000 words - she said too long to submit in its current format - I emailed her back and she said actually length has nothing to do with it - that was just one of her standard rejection reasons and designed to let people down gently -,so very very poor way of communicating in my opinion as writer may think there's a reason when there isn't - also p****d me off no end - used to rejection no need to do this -not saying Hale did for same reason but worth bearing in mind - 96000 words fine as long as it works
  • I had many standard rejections. The most useful were the ones that followed full ms requests: not enough description, things happening too quickly, not griping enough. These were things I could deal with. I rewrote accordingly. The others were: the state of the current market, no market for Victorian novels, etc. These were out of my control. I have now self-published and relished the freedom it gave it. My novel is out there available to readers, something I fear would never have happened if I'd stuck with subbing to Agents and publishers.
    I hope this is helpful.
  • sometimes 'word count' refers to space on the page.
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