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Too many me's?

edited July 2010 in Writing
I've been wanting to discuss this for a while but wasn't sure how to start without being carted off with more medication !
Anyway - the idea of "too many me's" has been mentioned on the "which song describes you " thread so thought this might be an opener.
I have for many years thought of my self as a double personality - not schizophrenic or bi polar or any medical term like that. In fact I believe all people have "doubles" in some way (and I don't mean doppelgangers eiMary Shelley wrote eloquently about this is Frankenstein - perhaps understandably, one of my favourite books ever. Many other authors have written about this too.
My question is this - is this "just" the fight between good and evil within ourselves or is it something deeper than that?
I won't say anymore right now in case no one is interested but it's something mylatest "work" is based on.

(Double me at this very moment is waiting for my wah to dry on my painting - lived around it for all my life so might as well join the visual artists amongst us!)

Comments

  • Perhaps those people who we refer to as 'two-faced' are a good example of what you mean Lexia.

    But when you think about it we are all different things to different people with behaviour and views appropriate to that role (it doesn't mean that is the essential real you).
    There is wife/husband/son/daughter/lover/friend/mentor/teacher/carer/provider and so on...

    Perhaps I'm being too deep for this time of the morning...;)
  • Well I have two voices in my head most of the time - one telling me I'm rubbish and don't deserve to mix with talented/clever people and the other telling me I'm just as good as they are, if not better, and they're lucky to be in my company! And I can actually believe both simultaneously.
  • edited July 2010
    I take counsel with myself all the the time. I don't mean I umm and ahh over things in my head but have a proper dialogue. It's like there is somebody in there who's not behind the wheel but somehow was once or will be behind the wheel and knows more than me sometimes and we discuss things. It's how I get most important stuff sorted out in life and how I've made my major changes too.

    There was a time when I thought everybody was like this until I spoke about it and then I felt like I was the only one like this. But over the years so many people have told me they are the same so I feel quite normal. Unless they were all taking pity on me and laughing behind my back lol.

    I mean it is almost like a cartoon where they have the angel and devil on opposite shoulders, except it's never really a moral discussion. Saying that I'm also able to tune into me at different ages of my life from childhood, teen, young adult etc to get a more global view of situations. I think that's more of a development of meditation though.


    So sorry Lexia rather than make you feel better you are now in the horrible position of felling a bit like me, and that has got to be terrifying for anybody I'm sure.
  • lexia, I don't think it is a fight between good and evil. It is a tussle between doing for yourself and doing for others.

    What maybe right for you to do, may not necessarily be for the good of others, yet as Carol says, you are a different person to different people.

    Anybody who doesn't share an inward struggle like you have described lexia, must lead a dull life, though I doubt they'd notice because of their dullness.
  • I thnk that's true, Dora. There are people who enjoy a rich inner self. They are not always the most intelligent or successful, but there is a deep quality of life available to them. Meditation has a lot to do with it, as Tony says, whether we realise that's what it is or not. Artists of all kinds, creative people, must by definition delve more deeply into meanings and reasons and effects, and I would imagine that writers and people in the film industry and theatre are foremost in these exploration possibilities.

    Another aspect of duality of personality, Lexia, lies in pretence. Everybody pretends, probably 100 times a day, and no-one is exempt from this natural human trait. We all have a telephone voice, for example, or a switch in manner between how we deal with different people. It varies with people as to how consciously they employ these sides of themselves; I think it happens naturally and subconsciously most of the time. With many people it isn't worth their while to think about it: they have lives to live and it's their own business how they go about it. With others, and you may be one, Lexia, it constitutes an important element that gives you pause for thought.

    Then there's secrecy. An enormous part of everyone's life. We all have secrets, some of which we disclose to only our most trusted intimates; some of which we will carry to the grave. You've only got to look at any soap prog on TV to see the mass of secrecy in high action. Luckily for us, secrecy is a hot spring of story material.

    I don't think I was revealing anything to you you didn't already know there, Lexia. Sorry. Just stirring round my thoughts about it all.
  • edited July 2010
    lol @ dora !

    Carol - I know what you mean about the "roleplay" thing. Think we have discussed this before - but it's not even that what I am trying to explain. It's sort of - I don't know who I am some days, where I am or why I am here (not a what is the meaning of life thing)


    [quote=SilentTony]So sorry Lexia rather than make you feel better you are now in the horrible position of felling a bit like me, and that has got to be terrifying for anybody I'm sure.[/quote]

    This is brilliant ST - now I know there's LOADSA nutters in the world ! ;)

    You want to talk literature now anyone ?
  • edited July 2010
    [quote=heather]Well I have two voices in my head most of the time - one telling me I'm rubbish and don't deserve to mix with talented/clever people and the other telling me I'm just as good as they are, if not better, and they're lucky to be in my company![/quote]

    Ah I'm like that. The eternal struggle between the external optimist that I am and the internal pessimist.

    As the optimist says 'everything is going well' the pessimist sticks it's head out of it's cupboard under the stairs that is my mind and shouts 'NO IT'S NOT!'
    Much to the optimists annoyance.

    It's the whole angel on one shoulder, devil on the other scenario.
  • Am I the only one that has voices that aren't easily categorised as good or evil?
  • Lexia, my mes are varied - I understand completely why you have asked the question and have also investigated in the past whether this means I might have a tendency to bipolarism or schizophrenia, but the answer is 'no'.

    I do have a dark and dangerous 'side' which is the one that enjoys writing horror - and I mean laughs out loud as I write, but in 'real life' I'm squeamish as hell. Despite my subject matter I don't think of myself as evil. I have no struggles going on with the different personalities. I'm quite happy with most of them.

    I've talked to myself (selves) all my life but that doesn't mean they manifest themselves separately and aren't aware of each other.

    I've been criticised in the past as being able to see every side of the story (annoys lawyers, that) but I think this is key for a writer. It's the people who only have one personality that I worry about.
  • edited July 2010
    When you think about it being a writer makes you many people to start with especially when you have to get inside the mind of your main characters.

    So say for crime writers, they can be police officers and detectives and victims, whilst at the same time being murderers and thieves and con artists [hopefully not in the 'real' world as well].

    So a horror writer, writing about vampires, is technically both the vampire and the slayer.

    Even if one of the characters is in 1st person and the rest in 3rd person you are still trying to think like them.

    This makes sense to me anyway...might sound like the rantings of a mad woman to everyone else. Maybe I really do have a split personality.

    'No you don't!'

    'Who said that?' :)
  • All this talk of 'selves' is beginning to make me think I'm abnormal. There are no selves for me, no voices, no pretence, no personalities, no nothing. Just my brain in my skull where it should be.
  • I have no pretences Red. I'm as you find me, whoever I happen to be at that moment!
  • Or should that be, whomever? :)
  • What is the "self" anyway? Isn't it just a collection of habits and opinions? Even our bodies constantly renew and change - every seven years or so you have a completely different body from the one you started with. Nothing is static, we're in a constant state of flux.
  • Now I'm really getting worried that I'm not normal like the rest of you...;)
  • edited July 2010
    [quote=Red]All this talk of 'selves' is beginning to make me think I'm abnormal. There are no selves for me, no voices, no pretence, no personalities, no nothing. Just my brain in my skull where it should be.[/quote]

    Theres no normal about it Red - as has been said we are all different. I was trying to get into the writing of some authors who have written about duality (Frankenstein was the one that came to mind when I posted)
    And I wonder if what you said is completely true - no personality ? no self ? Just a brain with no "mind" perhaps?

    edit : not being fascetious just wonder what you mean exactly
  • [quote=lexia]edit : not being fascetious just wonder what you mean exactly [/quote]

    What I meant is that there is me - ONE personality, rather than many personalities, or many 'voices'. I don't have a dual side, or perhaps that should be no duality. I don't have a bad self or good self or inbetween self. I simply am. Then of course I could launch into the concept of duality, but I shan't bore everyone!

    I do have a mind. My "mind" is as complex as everybody else's. Mind is very different from 'brain', which I referred to, because it's simply an organ. 'Mind' is a completely different subject altogether, if that makes sense, the subjective part of rational thinking.

    This far too deep for me at this time of night...;)
  • Me an' all - let's wait till daytime ! ;)
  • edited July 2010
    [quote=Carol]we are all different things to different people [/quote]
    Good concept, but I believe it goes deeper than that. We are different things to ourSELVES most times, too, not neccessarily just to others. Human nature makes us multi-faceted beings, which is a good thing, but ultimately confusing. The very thing that makes for well written characters is that 'human' quality or 3D effect so that we don't end up with cardboard cutouts walking through our stories. (Getting it into words is a talent, and one that I would love to be able to accomplish)

    As an illustration of these differing personalities within us, perhaps it's as easy as mentioning how sometimes we might find someone's comments crass and unwelcome yet at another time we might chortle at lewd remarks - dependent on how we are feeling at any given time. Obviously our personalities run much deeper than either laughing or being affronted by a nudge, nudge, wink, wink situation but that's one circumstance that springs to mind. Whether it's to do with the person making the comments or our state of mind at the time or even the company we find ourselves in is all a matter of timing.

    Have you never felt sexy/prudish, talkative/withdrawn, confident/inferior, active/lethargic? Another person witnessing us in just one of those phases might conclude that that is how we are and slot us into a permanent pigeon hole.
    [quote=SilentTony]the angel and devil on opposite shoulders[/quote]
    [quote=dora] I don't think it is a fight between good and evil[/quote]
    Right. It's not as easy as everything being black and white. We're much more complex than that, aren't we? Very often even confusing to ourselves if we pause to try to dissect our own traits.

    Sorry to have rambled but I think that's what you may have been getting at when you started this thread, Lexia. My apologies if it's not.
  • [quote=Island Girl]SilentTony wrote: the angel and devil on opposite shoulders[/quote]

    Yeah well, I only have one shoulder, so that's that theory quashed.
  • Thanks IG.
    [quote=Island Girl]Have you never felt sexy/prudish, talkative/withdrawn, confident/inferior, active/lethargic? Another person witnessing us in just one of those phases might conclude that that is how we are and slot us into a permanent pigeon hole. [/quote]

    Sometimes I feel all these things within in the space of an hour - very wearing not only on oneself but for the people around me !
  • Are you a Gemini? Sorry to reduce it to that level.
  • Me ? no, Leo. The big fierce king of the jungle, always on top of things etc etc. Hahaha Show off maybe - but that's it !

    (I think maybe I am out of the wizard of oz ;) )
  • "me me me me me - it's always all about you isn't it?"


    sorry lexia, couldn't resist.
  • I ask because the most multi-faceted people I know are Geminis. Me included. Sorry. Trivial.
  • I'm a Gemini and I'm convinced there's two of me to be able to write what I do.
  • I'm Leo so I live in the jungle and chase zebra for food.
  • Oooh don't ever cross a zebra.
  • I don't Dora, we have panda crossings by us.
  • Ooer. You are surrounded by police cars as you make yonder way from one kerb to another? You Liverpudlians are a strange species inchas.
  • [quote=dora]don't ever cross a zebra.[/quote]
    No, if you did, you'd be seeing checks in front of your eyes.
  • Lexia, you ask if it's deeper than just the fight between good or evil within ourselves.

    My response would be, that the inner fight you speak of is perhaps the deeper thing itself.
    Why denigrate such a fundamental driving force in humanity, by using the term ‘just’?

    Most people do seem to have an innate voice of conscience, guiding them through life’s moral morass. There are also the minority whose despicable actions jar and affront everyone’s sensibilities. They seem inexplicable to the majority, except perhaps in terms of their having a seared conscience.

    It would seem to me, that constant exposure to that which offends our conscience gradually desensitises us, eventually deadening our normal responses. Rather like the annoying alarm clock which we’ve switched to snooze so often, that we don’t even hear it anymore.

    It is perhaps the very personal, and individual struggle that each of us have with this duality warring within us, that creates such diversity of character. Daily we make many choices that either acquiesce or compromise with our inner voice. Forming as we do not only a personalised moral code, but a very individual sense of who we are. When we go against it we feel uneasy and sometimes even violated as a person. This maybe goes someway to explaining why from time to time we are unsure of who we are, it’s because who we are has been changed by our choices.

    I hope this makes sense, only this is the first time I’ve tried to put such thoughts together in any coherent form.
  • Thanks Paul - such coherent thoughts so early in the morning too !
    What you say hits home with me.

    [quote=PaulT]Daily we make many choices that either acquiesce or compromise with our inner voice. Forming as we do not only a personalised moral code, but a very individual sense of who we are.[/quote]

    This is so true. And when this happens , I agree, eventually you haven't the strength pr the will power to carry on with keeping who you are, who you are ! Maybe all of us are no one in particular. Maybe we are all composite bits of the computer that works the body and the emotions too. I sort of believe this but it doesn't account for the desperate emotion that some of us sometimes feel. Do computers have feelings? Perhaps this is the next stage in the evolution of man - humans without feelings apart from the basic ones of fight/flight/ hunter/gather etc.

    Thanks to everyone involved in this discussion - the topic is my "life blood" (or should it be "chips" ??!! ;) )
  • [quoteaulT]Daily we make many choices that either acquiesce or compromise with our inner voice. Forming as we do not only a personalised moral code, but a very individual sense of who we are.[/quote]


    Just to offer a dispute to that quote from my own personality. I neither acquiesce or compromise with my inner self. My moral code isn't derived or formed from this either and nor is the sense of who I am. If it was it would be a weak personality and a confused morality.

    When I arrive at crossroads my inner self doesn't sit in a conference room and debate which fork to take and come up with a compromised decision. It is usually the strongest and most difficult choice that is taken. I think that is why we have these inner voices, to take charge and lead.

    Of course I'm not suggesting that I never do what you say, just hardly ever. My personality has been formed and is forming due to difficult choices and the lessons learnt form either getting through or from realising I made mistakes when taking those decisions. My moral code isn't formed from these choices either. It has been formed by a life of living, observing and feeling how each and every thing I do and see affects others around me on a comprehensive scale.

    My choices are made with this code in mind and not the code forming because of what I decide upon doing.Yes my world outlook has changed because of right or wrong decisions I've made. Yes I've had to go away and re-evaluate who I am in a very core sense because of this at times. But this is what forms my 'personality'. That being the global me. Because that's what I define as my personality. Sure their are machinations developing and processing. There are also cogs grinding underneath and some of them need oiling and some need repairing but above the machine is the global me; personality.

    If I'm the body electric then beneath the bonnet is a Heath Robinson affair that somehow makes it work, even though I wonder how sometimes. But it does.
  • edited July 2010
    [quote=PaulT] Daily we make many choices that either acquiesce or compromise with our inner voice.[/quote]
    [quote=SilentTony]My personality has been formed and is forming due to difficult choices and the lessons learnt form either getting through or from realising I made mistakes when taking those decisions.[/quote]
    Isn't that sort of what PaulT first said, ST? We don't always make decisions on a conscious level and sometimes the things we do, end up having adverse affects or repercussions we're not altogether pleased with or that we even envisaged might happen.
  • edited July 2010
    No I'm not sure it was IG, unless I misunderstood him. I'm saying that I make decisions on a very concious level but that conciousness has been created by many different aspects of experience, both in the physical world and metaphysical world I live in.

    I'd say small decisions, those robotic decisions we make, don't necessarily need any concious processes. The routine of daily life from dressing, eating etc don't need any input at all. We may say they are conducted by an auto-pilot, but even auto-pilots need to be programmed. So there are many algorithmic processes going on underneath the surface even to put on a sock or take an bite from an apple.

    It is only when we are faced with Frost's dual road that we need to ask those other parts of ourselves to put down their tools and come to the star chamber of our mind. Of course some people don't do this and do take major decisions based on non-concious or free flight decision making. We either call these people mavericks or losers, depending how lucky they are.

    That's not to say we don't consult with the assembly of our mind and overrule like some egotistical boss on a power trip and mess it all up now and again. Of course we do that and generally we find we were stupid and build a library of regret. Or thank our lucky stars that we were so lucky in hindsight.

    Either that or we give the numbskulls lots to drink and let them take the wheel. It's only numbskull drink drivers who ring ex girlfriends at three in the morning or get on stage at weddings and sing Angels on karaoke thinking they sound like Robbie Williams.
  • [quote=SilentTony]I'm saying that I make decisions on a very concious level but that conciousness has been created by many different aspects of experience, both in the physical world and metaphysical world I live in.[/quote]

    If this is your way of thinking Tony, then I suggest that you are very lucky. You do not appear to have life "crises" but if you do you are able to overcome them very easily by your "mind set". Sorry to keep using cliches - but they just seem to fit well !
    I long for my mind to be clear on all things and not to think about who is upset and who is happy and after all , it's probably none of my business. If I can't get my own head straight then I certainly should not impinge on others.

    Maybe I din't make myelf clear at the outset. Did you ever stand in the kitchen knowing that you were going to make a cup of tea but have just simply no idea how to do it ? That might last 4 minutes. Then I might sit at the computer and write the most intellectual essay/article you could imagine on something that I thought I knew nothing about.
    Mad? Maybe. Scary? Certainly. Tiring ? More than ever for my family and friends. Sorry to bang on.
  • [quote=lexia]Did you ever stand in the kitchen knowing that you were going to make a cup of tea but have just simply no idea how to do it ? That might last 4 minutes. Then I might sit at the computer and write the most intellectual essay/article you could imagine on something that I thought I knew nothing about. [/quote]

    Interesting thoughts, lexia. For me the answer would be no, I've never had that. I think it sounds like the two hemispheres of your brain are not working in harmony (do they ever anyway?) with your tertiary areas/association cortex having a mad half hour. A bit like running upstairs, getting to the top and wondering what the hell you ran up the stairs for in the first place... We all have that at some point. The brain is fascinating and complex.
  • And don't forget that some medication can have effects too Lexia- positive and negative which can temporarily alter state of mind and consequently personality.
  • edited July 2010
    [quote=lexia]Did you ever stand in the kitchen knowing that you were going to make a cup of tea but have just simply no idea how to do it ?[/quote]

    That sounds like a problem relating to anxiety. I have in the very distant past had a wrestling match with anxiety and I would often be like that. As Red says we all go into a room and stop trying to remember why we went in there. We all forget where we put our keys, what we were thinking about doing, remember things at the last moment.Those are very different than not remembering how to do basic pre programmed activities like making a cup of tea though.

    When we have anxiety issues our brains do work in a very different and often frightening way. The mind tries to prioritise things and puts thinking into narrow corridors just so we can cope with being. This will often result in forgetfulness and the absence of basic mind function. I'm not sure if you have any of these issues in your life right now but if you do then the key could be to find some help for that.

    [quote=lexia]
    If this is your way of thinking Tony, then I suggest that you are very lucky. You do not appear to have life "crises" but if you do you are able to overcome them very easily by your "mind set".[/quote]

    Yes I am lucky, but that luck, like most luck, took a lot of hard work. I'm only human and have many life crises believe me. In fact I've only recently come out of a very dark time though personal loss and the trauma before that happened. During that grief I wasn't myself but once again took stock and have learnt an awful lot about me and the world around me because of it.

    So not everything is easy to overcome but we must overcome them in the end. I guess it's like exercise, or daily writing, you have to keep it up otherwise you'll become out of shape. If I do find some things easy, or easier, to deal with than others it's simply because I maintain my mind in this way. So when the proverbial hits the fan I'm more readily equipped to deal with it. It's never easy or simple but I have a head start and a reference shelf of experience fully stocked in my mind.

    I'm probably boring about this as I always go on about it but have you tried meditation? It is a great way to keep your mind, focus and global view of yourself and everything around you in constant touch. That or any other mind activity. Because we all have the same mind to set as you say, but it's up to us how we set it and how much work we want to put in to develop it.
  • Having read your post with interest, it would appear that you have misunderstood me ST.
    You have actually written nothing that I would disagree with at all. In fact I'm very grateful for your comments, you have quite rightly expanded into areas that I obviously neglected to make clear myself. My fault, but then again I wasn't submitting a formal treatise, but commenting on the hoof as it were.
  • Neigh?!
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