Welcome to Writers Talkback. If you are a new user, your account will have to be approved manually to prevent spam. Please bear with us in the meantime

Punctuation in poetry

edited July 2010 in - Writing Problems
I am wondering about punctuation in poems. This is because whenever I type a poem it automatically starts each line with a capital letter. Is this correct or not? If I am writing a line where it ends with a pause but the next line is still part of the same sentence should it have a capital letter or not? I have got completely confused by it all now. The more I think about it the more unsure I am becoming.

Comments

  • I think the normal rules no longer apply with poetry. Personally, I usually start the new line with a capital, whether or not there is a punctuation point at the end of the previous line, but I've seen poems with lines uncapitalised. I think most of it is personal style and preference. Ignore the green squiggly lines on your spell checker, and let go!

    *SA*
  • I don't think there's a strict rule, ginab, but there is definitely a preference for competitions etc. that punctuation follows 'normal' rules i.e. no capital at the start of a line, only at the start of a new sentence. Capitalisation all the way down is considered a little old-fashioned at the moment.

    (BTW your word processor doesn't know that you are writing a poem and assumes that a new line is a new sentence or part of a list, which is why it capitalises for you.)
  • Capitals at the beginning of each new line is what used to happen in days of yore when people used terms such as 'ere' and 'twas'.

    Some poets, not many, still use them, but pick up any book of modern poetry by a good poet and you will see that it no longer applies.

    You are a modern poet, writing today, for today's people, so you want to use recognisable punctuation and terms and language.

    And it has the wonderful advantage that your poetry is easy to read and flows well!
  • Have a look at some well established poets to ascertain how they tackle punctuation. Also, the punctuation in a poem sometimes depends on the style / form of the poem.
  • in order to stop 'Word' capitalising on a return you need to do a 'soft return' use the key with the arrow (for upper case) and the return at the same time.
  • Thank you. I have loads of poems that need a final polish and I haven't really looked at the punctuation on any of them. I read somewhere that there were a lot of competitions that reject poems because of poor puncuation, so I thought I had better get it right before I send any off.
  • I've just finished a year long creative writing course and in the poetry module (which I kinda hated) I can tell you they were very keen on punctuation. Basically, what seems to be the in-vogue now dictates that poetry should be just like prose, in consideration to punctuation. So, full stops at the end of a sentence, comma at the end of a line that's going to be a run-on-line, some semi-colons littered about for artistic effect and only put a capital letter at the start of a line if the previous line had a full stop. For example:

    She glides by
    cursed to darkness,
    shadow and stillness
    her faithful servants.

    Forged to fight
    beyond the sun,
    chained to eternity
    and lust for blood.

    The last of the lonely,
    hunts for her covenant.
    Friendless fangs,
    death’s cruel smile.
  • I also did an MA in creative writing, and have kept the group that I was with as a writing group. I have poet friends I can get poetry advice from, but this group is fantastic in that they are not poets and are therefore reading from the view of customers.

    If I didn't believe in punctuation before, I certainly do now. I've lost count of the times they haven't understood what I'm saying (and poetry is by nature the bare minimum of information), a situation which has been resolved by a semi-colon or comma in the correct place! Like you I tend to write without punctuation and put it in after, and quite often I'm sending 'rough' work off to them for critique.

    Poetry is communication.
  • When our writers' club has its annual Verse of the Year competition we have readers reading out the entries, they are not neccesarily poets so the punctuation is very important so they can read out the piece as the poet intended it to be read.
    I am not a poetry writer, but when I read the verses I can see when the punctuation is wrong, or it has been put in the wrong place, or missing an important symbol.
  • I agree that punctuation in poetry should be the same as in prose. To start every new line in capital letters is old fashioned. It makes the poem look silly when enjambments are used. I’m not a fan of centred poems either. To me they look like nursery rhymes. I think poems look better when they are justified left unless, of course, they are shape poems.

    Careful thought should be given when submitting poems as well. They can be rejected if they are formatted the wrong way. Unless the editor requests anything different, a common standard is:

    TITLE IN CAPS

    Double space after title.
    Then the body of the poem
    single spaced like this and
    in Times New Roman 12 pt
    or Arial 11pt.
    Another double space before
    author’s name.

    Kado

    Don’t bold the title; it will be considered the work of an amateur. Hope this helps, but please correct me if I’m wrong.
  • Also, don't use a copyright symbol, just your name. You name means you have written it and the copyright is yours. A copyright symbol suggests you don't trust the (professional) editors etc you are sending it to. It screams, 'I am an amateur'.
  • I forgot about the dreaded copyright symbol Liz! Thanks for the reminder. You are right, professional editors aren’t going to steal anyone’s work.
  • Why do you say don't bold the title, Kado?

    That's not something I've heard before and I've just had a look through a few of my poetry books and the ones I checked all had the titles bolded, and sometimes in a larger font than the poem.
  • Yeah... it's the one thing that makes me wince! It doesn't mean anything anyway. How often do you see a professional poet with a copyright symbol? No-one steals poems. Even if they do, a copyright symbol doesn't give you any more rights than no copyright symbol. And there's no copyright on ideas, so anyone can take the idea and write it themelves anyhow.
  • LizLiz
    edited July 2010
    You aren't putting it in a book, it's just being sent to an editor. An editor likes plain type.

    I don't use capitals, just a slightly larger font.
  • I just wondered why it was an issue. It seems like a very minor thing to be such a no-no.
  • I don't think it's a complete no-no but plain type should be used as a general rule because some people send stuff in formatted in whirls and shaky letters etc according to theme, thinking it makes the poem better.

    The plainer you are, the more professional you will seem. It's amateurs who spend time deciding on fonts, boldness etc, you want to look professional and be judged with them.
  • [quote=heather]Why do you say don't bold the title, Kado?

    That's not something I've heard before and I've just had a look through a few of my poetry books and the ones I checked all had the titles bolded, and sometimes in a larger font than the poem. [/quote]

    Hi Heather

    I meant at the submission stage. I agree with you, the title of a poem looks better in bold, and a larger typeface, when published in a book.

    It does seem like a minor thing to be concerned about, but it could make the difference between being published or not.
  • [quote=Liz!]Yeah... it's the one thing that makes me wince! It doesn't mean anything anyway. How often do you see a professional poet with a copyright symbol? No-one steals poems. Even if they do, a copyright symbol doesn't give you any more rights than no copyright symbol. And there's no copyright on ideas, so anyone can take the idea and write it themelves anyhow. [/quote]


    Exactly!
  • Ok both. Thanks.
  • Thank you all for the advice. I haven't had much time to pop in so I haven't been ignoring my own thread but I'm glad it's not just me who finds punctuation a pain. I am going to try and edit etc a whole pile of poems next week so fingers crossed I san get my head around it because at the moment my mind is a bit like a black hole...empty! :)
  • the poems I use in my magazine tend to come from very old books or subscribers and they all, without exception, have a capital letter to start and only close the punctuation at the end of the verses. It looks so much better that way. Sometimes I centre them for a change, I work with a5 size pages and two columns, so you can imagine how good they look that way. Each is separated by a piece of artwork, flowers of some kind.

    Gracious, I am going against every single thing on this thread, but - it's my magazine and no one has yet complained! I just got another batch of poems in to use, all have capital letters at the start ... and all are previously published, too.
  • [quote=dorothyd]Gracious, I am going against every single thing on this thread, but - it's my magazine and no one has yet complained! [/quote]

    I love this sentence Dorothyd. It means you have found a winning formula with your readers; stick with it!
  • thank you! The magazine is into its 11th year (and they said it wouldn't last) with people saying it never seems to be tired in any way. That''s down to the sheer pleasure I get from working on it. I'm printing the Autumn issue at the moment, a few a day, sticking them in envelopes, the entire mail out will be ready by the end of August, when I will write the Winter editorial and begin work on the Winter magazine printing. Spring 2011 is all but in place. Summer, Autumn, Winter and Spring 2012 are all started.
  • What magazine is this Dorothy?
  • Hi Dorothy,

    Like Kateyannne, I am intrigued about your magazine.
  • Dorothy,

    I agree - your magazine and the poems within are 'just right'. Why change?
  • I'm intrigued too. :)
Sign In or Register to comment.