Welcome to Writers Talkback. If you are a new user, your account will have to be approved manually to prevent spam. Please bear with us in the meantime

Here We Go Again!

edited December 2013 in Writing
Lord help me......and you REAL writers. Last night 'The One Show' decided to have a return visit of that well known (and respected) children's author, Frank Lampard. Guess what? they decided to plug his b...book again, obviously in time for the Christmas market. Ironically my local Waterstones never stocked his book. I have made a formal complaint to the BBC, and I'll not get excited with their response. But what a kick in the teeth for you REAL writers

Comments

  • His book clearly sunk in hardback, so they're pushing a paperback- presumably...

    Sorry, it's been a long day...
  • toothy, I am sending you some ear plugs and a sleep mask.

    It's for the best.

    *cuts TV cable - just in case*
  • [quote=toothlight] Ironically my local Waterstones never stocked his book.[/quote] What's ironic about that? I can't see any reason why they should.

    [quote=toothlight] But what a kick in the teeth for you REAL writers[/quote] I don' see why. I'd love one of my books to be plugged on the One Show, but it's not as though he stole my chance or that his book being plugged will reduce the chances of mine succeeding.
  • edited December 2013
    Obviously this situation doesn't faze you as much as it does me. But I get b....angry at this celeb nonsense, or maybe because I did get published (not self publish) and know the endless hours it takes to write the 'finished' manuscript only to re-write with your editor. Okay I won't change anything, but that doesn't mean I have to quietly accept the unfairness. End of sermon....and I won't cut the TV cable. tooth(gritting teeth)light
  • I only ever watch the One Show if my remote control has stuck on '1' because some food has become wedged onto it.

    Sorry, didn't see the prog, plus, still don't really know who Frank Lamhard is.

    *totters orft trying to understand wot all the fuss is about*
  • @ Dora. I haven't clue, either, who Frank Lamhard is! But I do know of a Chelsea footballer by the name of Frank Lamphard, who is trying the kid the public he has written three books for children.
  • Do you know for sure he didn't write them? I write. I also illustrate. I also design book covers. I also play the harp. People can have more than one talent. Just because he plays football doesn't necessarily make him illiterate.

    Please note: As an Australian I have never seen the man or heard him speak. I am simply playing devil's advocate here.
  • Nena, you only need to hear him talk to know he didn't write them.

    I'm not saying he didn't come up with the story ideas- because as far as I've read and heard, he did. He made the stories up for his children, but if you can't talk in the correct tense then I don't think you'll be able to write it...
  • The proof comes in the Guardian interview when he said: 'I couldn't, to be honest, finish a complete book.' Then when asked:' So did you actually write any words?' replied, 'Yeah, bits of it.'
  • It doesn't bother me - it draws attention to books, if someone buys his book and enjoys it, that's good for us all as it might be one of ours next time. The publisher will have had a real writer ghost write it and they will have been paid.
  • The fact that they have a real writer being paid to write it is the redeeming feature.
  • This just proves how powerful 'word of mouth' is - even the virtual kind.

    I've never seen Frank Lamphard promote his book - but thanks to TB I know all about it.

    I don't care if he wrote it himself, I just care that children are bought well-written books.

    A book 'written' by a famous footballer about football seems to be a winning idea. Footballers are heroes to kids and what a great idea to slip a reading lesson in to the mix, bit like hiding greens in something more palatable.
  • edited December 2013
    Absolutely BB.

    [quote=Baggy Books]I don't care if he wrote it himself, I just care that children are bought well-written books.[/quote]

    I think it's all too easy to get stressed out trying to define whether 'one is writer or not' and in this chap's case, seeing as he's usually a footballer then it's considered he's not cut out to be a writer.

    Making the point one has a full time job that isn't writing defines whether they're eligible to produce a book or not is, IMO, something to do with a writer snobbery and quite a lot of jealousy.
  • I don't consider it snobbery or jealousy, dora, just dismay at short-sightedness.

    Most of these celeb books the publisher pays them a sizeable advance, and rarely do they actually recover the advance in their sales.

    Meanwhile good writers struggle to get their work seen, or it's rejected- and not always because it's bad writing.
  • [quote=Baggy Books]A book 'written' by a famous footballer about football seems to be a winning idea. Footballers are heroes to kids and what a great idea to slip a reading lesson in to the mix, bit like hiding greens in something more palatable.[/quote]

    It's a different issue than the one which prompted Toothlight to start the thread, I suspect, but if these books encourage children, who wouldn't otherwise have been interested, to read then that's a good thing.

    [quote=Carol]Meanwhile good writers struggle to get their work seen, or it's rejected- and not always because it's bad writing.[/quote] Ideally the best books would always be the most successful regardless of the celebrity status of the author, trendiness of the genre, extent of the marketing budget etc, but the whims of the reading public will always play a part.
  • Baggy Books asks if Frank Lampard promotes his books. Google 'Frank Lampard Book Signings,' and a list will come up. I wish he'd come near me as I would go and tell him to his face he's a fraud. Sadly I doubt he'll even come to Wales,let Alone Llandudno
  • edited December 2013
    [quote=toothlight]Sadly I doubt he'll even come to Wales,let Alone Llandudno[/quote]

    Sounds like it might be safer if he doesn't...;)

    [quote= Phots Moll]Ideally the best books would always be the most successful regardless of the celebrity status of the author, trendiness of the genre, extent of the marketing budget etc, but the whims of the reading public will always play a part.[/quote]

    I'd question that to some degree.
    Big name publishers see a celebrity name as a sure bet to make sales and get publicity (because their name or face is in the news/on tv every day/weekend)- which is going to guarantee profits because of the way the share prices work, and the shareholders want a good dividend.

    Trouble is, unlike a 'non celeb writer', the books you're going to get out of them in future years is small to non-existent...
  • Frank Lampard - who is he? Seriously, I've not even heard of him. Since mid-Sept we have hardly watched the TV so I guess we are out of touch with who are celebs and what they are and are not doing.
  • [quote=toothlight]Baggy Books asks if Frank Lampard promotes his books.[/quote]

    No I didn't.


    This is what I said:

    [quote=Baggy Books]I've never seen Frank Lampard promote his book - but thanks to TB I know all about it.[/quote]
  • edited December 2013
    [quote=Stan2]Frank Lampard - who is he?[/quote]

    He is a very famous England and Chelsea footballer and has been for many years.

    [quote=toothlight]I would go and tell him to his face he's a fraud. [/quote]

    Because he put his name to some books he has admitted he only partly wrote himself? What's fraudulent about that?

    Publishing is a business. If any of us could guarantee sales then we'd get the contracts. No point railing against it. Who said it had to be fair?
    Just write the best things you can write and be persistent. It isn't only celebrities who get publishing deals.
  • Well I think if his books get children , especially boys, reading then it's all good. And surely the money these celebs make for the publishers will help them to finance the new authors like us if we are lucky?
  • I agree in theory, Nefertari, but not all celebrity books sell well and not all are well written (regardless of who actually did that bit) so readers may be put off and ordinary writers could be subsidising the flops.

    We can't just blame the celebrities and publishers though. If things tend to sell better when they use the name (or picture) of a celebrity, then naturally producers are going to keep using those names wherever they can. Everytime we buy anything that has a celebrity endorsement we're encouraging this behaviour.
  • edited December 2013
    [quote= Phots Moll] Everytime we buy anything that has a celebrity endorsement we're encouraging this behaviour.[/quote]

    Agree totally, PM.

    There are less celebrity bios being put out now, as the publishers caught a cold with them a year ago- they didn't make the sales expected as in previous years, so book shops probably returned a lot of stock.

    The majority of these books end up in charity shops in the new year...
  • Best-sellers per Waterstones:

    http://www.waterstones.com/waterstonesweb/bestSellersCategory.do?ctx=0&searchType=7

    A mix of celebs, footballers, TV links and...writers. Room for all?

    A book I worked on in the spring made it to one list in a national paper - author's first, not a celeb, just a bloody good writer (non-fiction). It also topped its Amazon category too. There is hope...
  • Non-fiction seems to be considered okay by newspapers if it's serious, as does literary fiction. But well done to that writer, Baggy.

    I suspect celeb bios get mentioned because of the 'name' factor...

    After all look at how badly edited FSOG was, but because it was the latest 'must be seen with/talking about' book, it got page space in even the serious papers...
  • At least he was honest, he said he came up with the characters and the story and he had help putting it all together, its' not like he sat down and said it was all his own work. If it gets kids reading it can't be a bad thing. I would only have issue with it if he said that it was all his own work.

    Toothlight it really isn't worth getting yourself in a tizz over it. Anything that promotes books to a generation that plays Fifa on their XBox or their PS4 and to whom Frank Lampard is someone they aspire to be like cannot be a totally bad thing. If it gets them writing and following in real writers footsteps it has to be a positive thing.
  • Hopefully, Neph.
  • What do you think about autobiographies TL? http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-2523927/Kelly-Brook-scores-million-pound-book-deal-reveal-showbiz-lovers.html
  • Yes, saw that.

    But I suppose there will be people gagging to read about her love-life...:(
  • Heather, the definition of fraud in the Oxford English Dictionary says: ' wrongful deception intended to result in financial or personal gain.'Lampard is portrayed on the cover as the 'author,' not one who wrote a 'few bits.' And of course he's done it for financial gain. He needs the money, poor lad, with the mean wages in the Premier League. Ah well, I reckon this post has run its course, so I'll go and have a large Scotch and devise a plan to become a celeb, then I can utter rubbish and make a fortune!
  • 'Big name publishers see a celebrity name as a sure bet to make sales and get publicity (because their name or face is in the news/on tv every day/weekend)'

    Actually this backfires after a while: people really go get fed up of the same names and faces all the time. Over on AAY some time ago people were up in arms about the same celebs on the covers of Good Housekeeping and other mags - Lorraine Kelly, Lulu, Twiggy, repeat ad nauseam. It's overkill and it becomes boring, because they have nothing new to say and people switch off.
    While there is a certain section of the population that finds this sort of thing comforting - they don't read themselves, so if their kids want a book for Christmas, they may choose one by a name they actually know from among so many available - it will be a turn off for many others. So it's not necessarily the money-spinner publishers think it will be. People may be slow to learn, but they may eventually realise they are being sold something shoddy under a banner headline name.
    I suspect there are people all over the UK saying, 'What can I get for X for Christmas? I know - she likes that model/footballer/film star/ B list celeb, I'll get her that book they wrote.'
    The book will never be read, and will end up in the charity shop along with lots of other copies bought for the same reason; people like their celebs in soundbites, not book length.
  • Completely agree, Mrs Bear, but what we real writers want is for that publicity to transfer to us and OUR books are bought...and hopefully read. It's a lovely dream but the reality.....
  • [quote=toothlight]Completely agree, Mrs Bear, but what we real writers want is for that publicity to transfer to us and OUR books are bought...and hopefully read. It's a lovely dream but the reality.....[/quote]

    It always amazes (and disappoints) that so few writers appreciate the concept of marketing. The client I mentioned elsewhere, whose work became a best-seller, nailed the marketing.
  • I'd rather celebrities got in a ghost writer to tbh. I've read (not to the end) several autobiographies written by the celebrities themselves lately and they were tedious. Dawn French and Miranda wotsit for a start.
  • David Niven must spin in his grave - he was unbeatable for quality celeb writing.
  • Bring on the empty horses!

    Terence Stamp tells a good tale too.
  • I think it's because all of them gave from a generation where good writing was taught- you learnt the reasons for good punctuation and how it matters...
  • I'm not sure that's it entirely - David Niven was a brilliant raconteur, with timings etc, a fab after dinner speaker etc. He had the gift of story telling and that's what his books were - a series of stories.
  • It's not just how they wrote, it's what they wrote. They had a story to tell.
  • They'd actually lived life and had something to say.
  • Be fair Carol. Wayne Rooney 'wrote' his first autobiography at the ripe old age of 21, AND he had learned to do joined up writing!
Sign In or Register to comment.