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In regards to vanity publishers
Hello all,
My question is in regards to vanity publishers, are they really all that bad? Should they be avoided at all costs? I have done some research on their meaning but I still am undecided. To be more specific, out of the two publishers I've sent my first book to (sample chapters ect) only one has give me a yes. The other one told me it had promise, but had stylistic problems. I didn't respond after that.
I've just got a piece of mail from Austin Macauley Publishers saying that, "Your words speak good, give more, please." I dare not lie, I was quite honoured. When I sent those sample chapters to them, I didn't know about vanity publishers nor did I know that they were actually one. I don't have money and I couldn't afford to publish my own book through them, which is what I understand will happen if I send my final manuscript and they accept it. Is that really what is going to happen though? If they say yes, are they seriously going to ask for my money? If so, how much? Is it worth it? Or should I send my work off to other non-vanity publishers?
Comments
All vanity publishers will ask you for money. They bankroll your book by getting you to pay for it. At an inflated price. It's cheaper to get it published yourself, and you will earn more.
Austin Macauley occasionally do not ask for money, but only if the author is a recognised author already, or if the book really does show great promise. In that case you would have been told you had a proper contract.
There's quite a lot on here about Austin Macauley, most of it negative. The only positive from two authors who are/will be published by them and have not had to pay.
Personally I wouldn't touch with a barge pole. The price you will have to pay is about £2,400.
This would have rung alarm bells if nothing else: "Your words speak good, give more, please." It's not even proper English.
Who is the other publisher who said you had style problems? If it isn't a vanity publisher, that DOES show promise - they like your story, but see it could be made better. If they are willing to give you feedback, you must have written well. This is NOT usual. Most people get back a form letter 'no'. I would get in touch with them again, depending on who they are, and ask for feedback on the style issues, and listen to their advice.
It is very unusual for an author to get their first book published. You learn as you go on.
Here is a thread about AM.
http://www.writers-online.co.uk/talkback/#/discussion/185201/austin-macauley-publishers-canary-warf-london-
Agree with all above.
The only way for you to find out is by sending off your finished work.
A big Welcome tearsinrain.
Another query about AM, then.
Has anyone noticed that a lot of people who submit there don't seem to have English as a first language? How curious. And judging by their response, AM don't seem to have English as a first language, either.
tearsinrain said "I've just got a piece of mail from Austin Macauley Publishers saying that, "Your words speak good, give more, please."
First let me clarify that they did not say, "Your words speak good, give more, please." or anything along those lines. That was an attempt at humour on my behalf. AM wrote me quite a formal letter saying that their board of editors liked it and they wanted the final manuscript. They didn't speak about anything else in regards to contracts or prices. The other publisher was A&A publishing. They said it had promise but it could do with a good edit. I asked her to elaborate through emails and she then went on to say that the issue was punctuation of dialogue (I've since fixed this issue) and a stylistic problem. I asked her to elaborate further on what the problem with my writing was, and she bluntly replied, "Our quote for one of our editors to edit your manuscript is $870 plus GST = $957. You will receive a full report on all aspects of the writing as well as marked-up comments on your electronic manuscript." After that I decided that I didn't want to deal with this person anymore. Thanks again for the replies, from what I've gathered... it won't hurt to send AM my manuscript right? Also, as a side note, I sent the sample chapters to one other publisher, HarperCollins. As an extra side note/question, the book in question is sci-fantasy and is 30k words long. Is that too short for a novel? I've seen that some publishers have a 100k minimum for science fiction / fantasy.
30k is a novella, not a novel.
If AM ask for money, back out - you could publish this yourself for next to nothing. But I would say get it proof read; there's nothing worse than a badly punctuated, amateur-looking book.
I would continue to send your book off to as many publishers as you can. If it has merit, others will recognise that. If you get continual rejections, maybe it's time to give your manuscript further examination. Publishing at any cost is completely foolhardy; the journey could end right there. If you have any money at all for this project, it should be spent on editing/proof-reading or other professional services.
Getting a book published is only the very beginning of the journey, as I'm sure you know. You want sales afterwards, not for it to die a lonely, dusty death. Google publishers to see which authors they work with and what they are prepared to do for you. A copy of The Writers and Artists Yearbook (current) is always useful for cherry-picking those who are interested and experienced in working with your genre. Have a look at agents, too, who will take the leg-work out of your search for the right publisher.
I get the impression that you haven't made any study of the market you're aiming at, or what publishers are expecting from you the writer.
Can only agree with what Mrs Bear and TN have already said.
Now after a few years it all came to light that rival companies were clicking on the adverts on my websites to cost their rivals money.
On the same note I have seem many posts that are posted about Austin Macauley claiming they wanted money to publish then the person whom posted never seems to make any further comments on any other posts they just seem to disappear. I do not for one minute say the AM do not ask that you may be required to contribute as it states it on their website. But it does make me think that some of these post are to cause trouble for this publisher. I am not saying this is the case for tearsinrain but loads of other publishers ask for contribution and not all claim to be self publishing publishers. AM have been going for many years and if people thought they were no good then they would have folded a long time ago.
As your novel is only 30,00 words perhaps you may want to look at writing film or play scripts as they are normally about 20,000 words, as Mrs Bear points out 30,000 is not really a novel. I am in the middle of 2 novels now and one of them is at chapter 4 and it stand at 34,000.
Some publishers do not mind short stories, so stick by you guns and go for it, just try until you get the right deal.
After all it is not about getting your name in print it needs to give you a financial reward as well.
And it's true self-promotion is needed even if you have a traditional publisher - but knowing authors, and I know many, who are published by Transworld, Bloomsbury, et al, their publishers do a LOT. It's a completely different ball game - you are only having to supplement the publisher's own machine. they send the book to every bookshop all over the country, arrange to have it translated, advertise it in many different ways. On their far-reaching websites for a start.
As a self-publisher or allied to somewhere like AM, you do that all yourself.
http://www.londonbookfair.co.uk/find-exhibitors/#search=startRecord=61&rpp=12
edit: Say AM gives me a traditional contract, what happens from there? Will the books be posted to me and the rest is up to me? I understand that I will have to self promote ect but I am unsure as to how one might go about doing that. Is it as easy as me walking into a bookstore and asking, "Will you sell my book?"
Happy_Author, was that your personal experience? Because I have heard that's how it was for non-vanity publishers but for AM, it might be different.
I received 2 contract offers from 2 publishers both paid an advance, but as I did meet the Head Editor in person from Austin Macauley, this greatly helped me make my mind up. So far I have been very happy with how they have dealt with everything. My first book comes out at the end of January and my second is still in the early stages as only just sent back the contract.
http://www.publishingcrawl.com/2012/04/17/how-to-write-a-1-page-synopsis/
Even on Writers Online you will find loads of tips and help.
The most important thing is don't get hooked on to forums that just constantly give negative, one persons opinion does not mean that the publisher should be avoided. There are many bitter people out in this world that think because their work was turned down that they spout negative comments all the time. Rejection is something you will have to live with as even the best writers get the No Thanks letter in the post.
If you are a good writer you will never need to part with your money to have your work published. Paying for proof reading and editing services is acceptable just make sure you check them out first.
But if you have to pay - then that is an entirely different story. Then AM becomes a vanity publisher and will fleece you to print your book, which will be much more than if you did it yourself. They very well might be using money from the people they ask money from to subsidise people like h_a.
As mentioned above, you would do much better to use the money to get it properly edited before sending it out to traditional publishers or publishing it yourself.
Carol is asking you how much you know because if you really know as little as you seem to, it is very unlikely (although not impossible) that your book is ready to be printed by anyone. If you get a contract from AM for which you have to pay - the standard of your book could be anything. They will print anything, if you are paying for it.
Ths is what everyone is trying to tell you in the nicest way possible.
If they ask for money, there are many other, cheaper alternatives out there.
Carol asked me a question and I answered it. I shouldn't have to state that I understood her question, it should just be assumed. Next time, unless someone specifies that they do not understand, just assume that they do.
Liz is a popular and long-established member of this forum and was trying to be helpful.
I'm NOT suggesting the following is you, but this may help put stuff in context.
Sadly every year there are new people who join and have absolutely no idea about publishing. They decide to take part in NANOWRIMO and think that their first draft is it. They send their work off and then get upset when it is rejected, and/or believe the rejection is because they don't know someone in publishing.
You are doing some of the right things, but from your answers- and your own admission- it is clear you don't yet have all the knowledge you need before applying to any publisher.
It will be helpful to you to look at the websites of the publishers you are interested in and study their submission requirements- every one has their preferences.
There are a lot of groups out on the web covering the various genres and they are a wonderful resource for writers at any stage; you can learn so much from these things.
It wastes your time and work if you start submitting before your manuscript is completely ready. Hopefully when it is at that stage you will get a positive response because you have done everything that's been wanted...
Liz, I am aware of what I have said, stop trying to undermine me (or whatever that was.) I was stating that if a question was asked of someone, and they say that they don't understand what was asked of them, that's perfectly alright. If they don't say anything, just assume that they do understand the question.
^ I thought that this was obvious.
She was trying to protect you from making an expensive mistake, that was all. She has no reason to want to undermine you and this isn't that type of forum.
Please try to take comments in the spirit in which they are offered and assume the best of us, rather than the worst.
There is a lot of expertise on this particular forum and many have been through the long and arduous rigmarole of submission to publishers and agents and, therefore, have experience of what to avoid and how difficult it is to have work accepted by an established and respected publishing house. I have only ever submitted to what I believe to be highly-regarded publishers. I nearly made it, once...
There are pitfalls, there is disappointment and there are mistakes to be made along the way to reaching that goal, and those who have been in the writing business for some time know that. If anyone gives advice here, it is with the best intent and Liz was merely pointing that out.
The very best of luck to you with whoever you choose to go with. You might well have written that elusive manuscript and be the lucky one who achieves the fame and fortune many writers seek.
@Tiny Nell, I do no seek fame or fortune, rather recognition of my ability to write. That might make sound like an egotist, but I assure you, that's not the case.
:bz
I'll post the same advice I always do - PAY someone impartial to CRITIQUE your work before you do ANYTHING with it - they have no axe to grind and will give you an honest appraisal. It is easy to find a whole host of people who will do this - some are even members of this forum. Most will allow you to send them a sample for free to see if you 'click' with them. The editor/critiquer (if that's a word) needs to GET you - you'll know when they do.
Don't worry about spelling and grammer at that stage it's all about the story - if that doesn't work it doesn't matter how word perfect or otherwise you are.
A decent crtitque will cost around £400 for a full manuscript - sometimes more but they will be worth it. You need to be prepared for criticism and to amend your work - I reckon I accept about 85% of what my critique tells me to change and I've been doing this for a while now!!!
Sometimes its just small bits and pieces that need altering but sometimes you need to re-write a whole character which I've just done. Hope this helps.
I suppose, in a way, I've already done that. My co-worker, who is a fan of novels, asked to read my manuscript. I asked him if he liked it and he said, "Yea, it's good." He noted grammar and punctuation as an issue, but apart from that, he didn't have anything else to say about it, apart from the fact that he found it interesting. Whether or not he thought there was an issue in the book, I don't know. Perhaps he didn't know how to articulate what he thought was wrong with it, or maybe he genuinely couldn't find a glaring problem that stood out for him. Personally, I'm hoping for the latter.
I also have another person I send work to (an avid novel reader) and it's the same person I've been sending it to since I started writing. This person is impartial, and as such has given me some very harsh advice in the past, especially in regards to my first book. She has read the first couple of chapters from this new book and has said that she is enjoying it so far, even going as far to say that, for the most part, the dialogue is flawless. I'm not one to let such things go to my head, and bloat my ego, but it definitely gave me more confidence in my ability to write.
So what they are saying is, if you pay us £2300, we will publish and promote sell and market your book for you.
If they sell any books at all (in no way guaranteed) they will then pay you 25% of some unstated percentage of sales. Do they specify the breakdown? After all, if you've paid all that cash upfront for all their work, why are you not getting a bigger percentage?
You pay them, so they take no risk; if they promote your book in the wrong places, or make no sales on your behalf, it doesn't matter as you have paid them; they need never pay you a penny if your book doesn't sell.
Therefore, in plain terms, it is actually in their interests that it doesn't sell at all!
I'd shop around, AO, and compare and contrast: I'd also do a lot of homework about the market you're aiming at, and work out for yourself whether the book is saleable.