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Ghost writer?

edited November 2016 in Writing
Thinking that, maybe my book, although reasonably written, might be coming across as a bit ameteurish. Thus, am thinking that, maybe it might be worth investing in hiring an experienced writer, from off fiverr, to redraft it into a more complex one, with added weight and depth, to make it more saleable...? A good idea, do you think...?
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Comments

  • What is this fiverr?
    It seems like a one stop shop for writers where you pay to have everything done!

    Surely you want to be the writer of your own book? If it's not good enough, paying someone is not going to teach you anything about how you can be a better writer.

    If you have spare money, then use it for a writing course.
  • If you don't want to be a writer, then not writing a book is a good idea.
  • Or pay for a manuscript assessment-or a partial like this one: https://www.writers-online.co.uk/writing-courses/critique-service

    £100 for 9,000 words. If there are issues they will be there from the start, and once they've been highlighted you'll become aware of them in the rest of your work.
  • No.
    Good advice.
  • That was exactly what I wanted to write - a resounding 'No!'
  • Lydia, you need to have confidence in your own ability, and in the story you want to tell.
    The problem as I see it - and I'm only going by your posts on here - is that you want the story to be about, or to solve things for, you and your struggles to fit in, to find your place in society, rather than about the characters. You want to find a huge kind of acceptance through success in your writing, but your lack of self-certainty is spreading to your work as a result.

    Writing is never going to take you where you want to go if you don't trust it. More importantly, you need to trust yourself. If you don't, perhaps a writing course of some sort would help. Wrapped up as we are in our fictional creations, we still have to have an element of distance between us and them. A novel or a short story is a kind of child that we send out into the world naked and unprotected, a product of our own, and unique; but we have to learn the difference between us and it in order for that child to grow.

    Learn to separate the two; learn to read your work as others would see it, not through your own fears. Hard to do, but it can be done.

    Unless the work is autobiographical, and perhaps even if it is, you should be able to see the characters as standalone creatures in your imagination - people whose story you need to tell. Have you done that? Do you care about them? Does the plot have a beginning, middle and end? Is it, in fact, a novel or a ramble?

    What would you gain by giving your work to some stranger to beef up, alter, re-write? Apart from the fact they'd probably be entitled to some of the royalties, they would be writing their version of the book, not yours. Do you really want to say, 'Here's this thing I've been working on for months and years: make it your own'?

    My answer to your question, then, is no.
  • No Lydia.
  • edited November 2016
    What they all say - NO. Write your book yourself, get it critiqued and proof-read, but if someone else writes it, it's not yours.
    If you don't want to do that, find another hobby - drawing? Painting? Craft-work? Something more sociable?
  • You have always been so confident of your writing, Lydia, and now you are wavering. Did something happen? Whatever, I think the most important thing for you is to get some professional feedback before you decide anything. Then, as the others have said, use that to become a better writer. Where is the satisfaction in someone else doing it for you?
  • No! Don't lose heart now (and money). This is your project.
  • Good advice, as usual. And I think, definitely, get it assessed first, on completion to see what can be done to make it into a properly readable book.

    I'm just worried that the romantic element of the book might not be being conveyed properly enough, and it needs to meet a certain level of readability and understandable logic in real life terms that I am not sure I know the ins and outs of, with relationships, which are entirely foreign to me, so how can I properly convey the thoughts and feelings of all the characters involved and the actions they take?

    They wouldn't be making too many additions to the book, if I do decide to go down that road. Just to add some realistic ones to make it all seem believable, whereas I don't believe I have the right experience to convey this, myself...
  • An unbiased critique would provide you with the necessary feedback. It would also encourage and motivate you to improve and polish the book.
  • Just written an email to this website's team who deal with assessments, asking them if they could provide feedback on my book, to see if it need's additional work done on it, or an expert's guidance, I n order to make it into a realistic tale about life's romantic entanglements,with all its ramifications. To send off the first 9000 words to check for this.

    That seems to have been a very good suggestion and link. Definitely the first step to take to discover just how realistic my portrayal of romantic love actually is? It has to be believable and, although I believe I have an excellent dramatic plot, I am not so certain regarding the mechanics and dynamics on relationships.

    Might need some assistance with that, but essentially, it would still be my story, just given the touch of an experienced person on matters that I don't fully understand enough about to believe I can competently write those parts to suggest the universal theme I need, to make it saleable as a book. If I fail at that, the readers won't come back for more. So, yes, to compromise for my lack, I would hire someone just for that purpose..
  • Lydia, if you do decide to hire someone (& like everyone else on this thread, I hope you don't) I wouldn't use someone from Fiverr. Fiverr is OK for 'cheap & cheerful' things like an e-book cover but not for writing a whole novel - many of the people on fiverr don't have English as a first language.
    Generally, I imagine it would be very expensive to hire an experienced writer to ghost a whole novel.
    Fingers crossed your critique will give you confidence to finish the project yourself.
  • Can I get a ghost writer to write a ghost story for me?

    I'll get my coat...
  • Sally, they won't be writing the entire novel. I would complete it, then get them to redraft it, by reading through it, and editing it to a more rich text, which would relate better to real life and include the subtext to it too, which is completely beyond me.

    Am thinking it will be costly, so in all probability, beyond my finances, but I am just making enquiries for now. To get the lay of the land. It is probably so, too, that I will have to use an assessor to advice me on this, instead. Uphill struggle.. or somehow find a copywriter....?
  • Just an additional question that I am puzzling over, that I would like some advice on too, if anyone can?

    About the actual plot of my book. Am thinking now that, a 'straight' theme for my story would be better, as this is a much bigger market and so my ideas might have more chances to relate to this target group, for potential sales and promoting of my author's name, which are the two things that matter most to me...

    Thinking that I'd rather write a plot which is a universal one, with loads of appeal to attract as many people to purchase it as possible, and that I believe that gay people are more likely to purchase such a book, and feel some identity with all of these characters, than heterosexuals would a plot based around the romantic needs of a lesbian... Does that make sense to anyone...? The idea of wanting to seek out as large as possible a target audience in my need for recognition of the themes that I wish to explore in my writing...?
  • Just an additional question that I am puzzling over, that I would like some advice on too, if anyone can?

    About the actual plot of my book. Am thinking now that, a 'straight' theme for my story would be better, as this is a much bigger market and so my ideas might have more chances to relate to this target group, for potential sales and promoting of my author's name, which are the two things that matter most to me...

    Thinking that I'd rather write a plot which is a universal one, with loads of appeal to attract as many people to purchase it as possible, and that I believe that gay people are more likely to purchase such a book, and feel some identity with all of these characters, than heterosexuals would a plot based around the romantic needs of a lesbian... Does that make sense to anyone...? The idea of wanting to seek out as large as possible a target audience in my need for recognition of the themes that I wish to explore in my writing...?
  • This appears to have posted three times?? Would edit them, but have tried this before and the post just disappears. So apologies for all of these...?
  • Don't worry Lydia 1960, double or triple posts happen occasionally, it's a glitch.
  • I think what you want is to just have an idea for a book and get someone else to do all the hard work. It doesn't work like that. The hard work is integral to writing a book. You can't give it to someone else to do or they will be using your idea and writing their own book, and would be the author. There is no copyright in ideas. Only in the writing of them.
  • Lydia I would stop second guessing yourself on how good/bad/wonderful the book will turn out and just write it as you want to write it based on the characters you want to write it about. If it's a little autobiographical so what. Only then will you and hopefully others be able to tell you how good it will be.

    Publishing is totally random nobody can write something and be guaranteed success unless your surname is Rowling, king, Grisham etc so you might write a great book that is the surprise hit of the year, or you could just as easily write a rubbish book that becomes the surprise hit of the year. You could even write the best book ever and nobody will be interested - that's the game you're playing in.
  • Write what's in your heart Lydia and don't think about what's going to appeal to the mass market, or you will end with something bland with all the interesting you-bits knocked out of it.
  • You seem to be embroiled in a spider web of questions and confusion. I am exhausted reading about all your worries, so you must be feeling like a wrung cloth of doubt and indecisiveness.

    Do you consider yourself a writer? Then write your idea your way. If someone else is given the reins, then it's not your creation. It's like Picasso telling someone that he has an idea for a picture where the head faces the wrong way on a contorted human being and can they please paint that as the'll do a better job than he would. Who is the real artist then?

    What's the point?

    Who are you going to impress by getting someone else to do the hard stuff? Certainly not a publisher or agent who will just assume you can't write. How will you get readers? They won't like 'your' work, they'll like the other person's style. How are you going to follow it up with a second book?

    If you think you are a writer, do it your way in your style and see what happens. If it falls dead, then try again and learn by your mistakes. If you have realised that you don't have what it takes to write convincingly, then by no account should you be forking out money for someone to do it for you. You will NOT get your money back. You will NOT get rich.

    You told us you had all but finished the book, so self-publish, promote and see where it gets you. But, for now, treat this as a hobby, not a profession.
  • Liz, I've said here I have written most of this book already, but don't believe I have the essential experience to weave, properly, the details required concerning relationships and how the work. Thus, if I go ahead with this idea, it would only be in addition to the majority of the words I have set out already.

    Thanks for the advice, dato2014, but my intention is to succeed at being a writer, in the long run, and if I don't books that are relatable, the readers won't come back for more. People want to read stories they can identify with, and if I am providing them with only half of the necessary details to pique their interests, I won't sell many books. So what would be the point of me chasing my dreams then...?

    Tiny Nell, I believe I read that even Jane Austin had assistance with her books, and it is well documented that Shakespeare had some help too. So I cannot see any objection in hiring someone to 'fill in the two's that my pared down existence prevents me from having the knowledge to do this. You could call it a form of research helper, and there's nothing wrong in that...

    Taking my attempts at a career in writing seriously is nothing to be despised. I am certain other writers get help with their writing too, and all is fair in this world, where things never appear as cosily set out as you seem to be painting it, and all sorts of tricks are used to get past the winning post. So again, I see no objection to this. Good enough for Jane and Shakespeare, it's also good for me too..
  • Liz, I've said here I have written most of this book already, but don't believe I have the essential experience to weave, properly, the details required concerning relationships and how the work. Thus, if I go ahead with this idea, it would only be in addition to the majority of the words I have set out already.
    If you haven't 'weave, properly, the details required' then you aren't an author - because this is what IS required when writing a romance.

    What you propose is like a plumber turning up with all the pipes and equipment and making an absolute hash of putting them together because 'he hasn't got the ability to plumb, properly, so all the bits work'. So has to get in someone else to do it properly.

    That isn't writing a book, it's completely ridiculous.

    There are ways of helping yourself - they include writing smaller projects until you have those skills necessary to do a bigger one. As usual, you are putting the cart before the horse, and trying to take shortcuts where it's just not possible to do so.
  • You’ve received a lot of good advice on this forum, Lydia. People have been kind, patient and encouraging.
    You’ve been toying with your writing aspirations for years – haven’t we all? But it seems to me that that’s all you do – flirt with the notion of being a writer and dream of becoming an overnight success without putting in the hard grind to actually learn your craft. You want to pay someone else to do that bit for you.
    Now, there’s nothing wrong with having dreams, and I have no wish to be unkind, but trying to support a daydreamer can be a bit tiresome.
    Why do I claim you’ve been toying with writing for years? When I was looking for your facebook page I found you elsewhere. (Your name is quite distinctive.)
    Back in January 2014 you were telling other people that you had completed a film script… wanted to connect with others to collaborate, etc, etc.

    So, we just seem to be another group of writers patiently answering your questions and offering you encouragement - and that gives me a sinking feeling.

  • 'Tiny Nell, I believe I read that even Jane Austin had assistance with her books, and it is well documented that Shakespeare had some help too'

    Really? I studied both of these writers at degree level (albeit a very long time ago). I know that Austen revised her work over and over and died in the middle of her revision of her final work, Northanger Abbey. The cut-off point is quite visible. However, the evidence that she is a great writer is still there in the unrevised section.

    Shakespeare may have taken the story ideas from elsewhere, but the poetry/language is his own.

    I don't think there is any doubt that either of these writers had stand-alone talent.

    Anyway, it is your money to do with what you think best. All we can do is offer advice when it's asked for.
  • Lydia 1960, writers get feedback from other writers, but that's just an opinion, is something working, is there a big mistake somewhere, but they are not writing it for them.

    When a writer sends their work to an editor it's more a fine tuning of what the writer has written. The services a writer uses are like hiring a cleaner to assess the mess that needs sorting out.

    But in the end the writer does it.

    You've recognised that you don't have the skills required at the moment, which is good. Because you can start to see what you're good at, where your weak areas are.

    Go on from there.
  • For the record, where did you read that about Austen and Shakespeare?

    From what you say, you want to be a writer by getting other people to do the writing for you. If that's the way you want to do it, do so.

    "About the actual plot of my book. Am thinking now that, a 'straight' theme for my story would be better, as this is a much bigger market and so my ideas might have more chances to relate to this target group, for potential sales and promoting of my author's name, which are the two things that matter most to me..."

    So if I am reading this correctly, you'd change the very basis of this book, which you say is mostly written, for the sake of sales, because 'sales and promoting' your name are the most important things? Give up now. If the writing isn't the most important thing, and you care so little about your characters, you will never write a novel that works.

    You haven't done your homework: there is a huge market for gay fiction out there - check it out on Amazon.

    Talking the talk doesn't make you a writer. Dreaming about it doesn't make it real. The only thing that makes anyone a writer is that they write, and they re-write, and they write again. There are no short-cuts.
  • edited November 2016
    Bleedin heck. I just wrote about 500 words and they all disappeared.

    Lydia, if all you want is fame, there are much easier ways of going about it than writing a book or a script. Most writers and authors are pleased to see their work in print, but it is not the overall objective, hence the use of pseudonyms.

    As advised by others, your best way forward is to package your work and send it to one of the respected literary services advertised in Writing Magazine. Only then will you have a TRUE idea of the merit of your work.

    Without being harsh, why don't you abandon this forum for 14-days so you might concentrate solely on your MS? As I have previously offered, I am quite prepared to give it a 'once over', not as a professional editor, but as a 'general reader' who can at least give you a PRELIMINARY oversight of your work. Feel free to PM me at your leisure. And don't reply with the common fear that someone will steal your ideas!!
  • I think we are talking a different language here, because the words I am using seem to have a different meaning here.This could be because I am from a different stratum to the majority of you here on this forum, so have a different value system.

    Fame is not my desire, but sharing with as people as possible IS. If you have been used to being part of a society that has been allowed to participate in some of the luxuries available in life, then you won't have any inkling of the pulsating desire to sample a share of these goodies that have been totally denied to you all your life. The burning desire to win, come what may.

    That is what really motivates me, and if I am treading on feet here by seeking out possible ways to do this, I can only apologise as it is not my intention. It just illustrates that either you don't understand the meanings behind my words, in which case you wouldn't be my target group, or my ability to convey what I wish to say is lost in the choice of words that I am using?

    Not sure which so, not wishing to cause any more ruckus I will take PaigeElizabethTurner up on her advice and PM her to see if she can give me some feedback on my writing because, it is true, I am like a wild beast, untamed in the refineness of writing skills etc, its techniques, so would welcome an independent's evaluation of my writing.

    Apo!ogies again if it seems I am talking a different language to that being written on here, but I think you'll find that is what I have been saying.. The actual problem...
  • If we can't understand the meaning of your words, how can you be a writer?
  • I'm with you on that one, Liz, which was the point of my question. I believe I can set the scene for drama, but that a major part of the subtext in actual life is missing from my tale, so need to know if it is relatable or not so have PM PaigeElizabethTurner to see if she is willing and can give me some feedback on my writing .. So kind of her if she can, even if it is just on the first few opening scenes ..
  • This could be because I am from a different stratum to the majority of you here on this forum, so have a different value system.

    I wish you wouldn't keep saying that, Lydia. You don't know that. We are all different and all believe in different things.
  • Well, whatever stratum or lifestyle you have chosen, I suspect it wouldn't include being completely shut off from mainstream society for most of your life. So I think there is some justification in my words expressed.. however mangled the message is...
  • What/who constitutes mainstream society?
  • You're making an assumption (repeatedly) that everyone else here is in some way privileged, with no stress, perfect childhood, happy marriage, 2.4 children, education and all the rest. That is nonsense. The one thing we have in common is a desire to write and to reach others with our words. Every one of those words comes from inside us; it doesn't come from social standing, or strata, or anything else - it comes from the desire to create and to communicate.

    You have a burning desire to win - but win what? If you aren't ready to publish, and you haven't written a book because you keep changing your mind about the content, and you want a ghost writer to take over and make it perfect, how does any of that make you a winner?

    The only thing that matters here is the writing itself. That comes from inside all of us, regardless of social status, or anything else. Writers come from all walks of life, all levels, all types. For some it may come harder than for others - not because of education or lack of it, but because life gets in the way. Don't sit there thinking other people have it easier - that's true in anything we do in life, to some extent. Just get on and do what you need to do, in your own way, without comparing yourself with others that you have never met and whose circumstances you don't know. That only leads to unhappiness and a lack of fulfilment in your chosen sphere.

    You've had it hard: so have many other writers. What makes some winners is that in spite of everything, they get down to the hard work and write their socks off.


  • You've had it hard: so have many other writers. What makes some winners is that in spite of everything, they get down to the hard work and write their socks off.
    Christy Brown who wrote My Left Foot using only the little toe of his left foot due to cerebral palsy springs to mind.
  • holy sh**. Now THAT is writing in the face of adversity! I'll look out for that.
  • Hi Mrs bear I've got 2.4 children at the moment, one of my girls ate a bucket of sweets at halloween and won't fit into her skirt. a week of sugar deprivation and apples for snacks (funny how you end up with tonnes of apples and no sweets after halloween) should see me back down to. 2.0 by mid November.

    I've got no socks on either so I'll need to go and put some on so I can write them off.

    Just let Lydia get on with it - Lydia you need to get on with it if you spent the time writing that you spend scribbling on here you could have finished 3 books by now - same applies to me probably I'm off to type something useful.
  • That's not quite what I said or was implying. Just that I have been isolated for decades with no real ability to socialise or communicate on any level which has to restrict my capacity to write about experiences. Logic. And very limiting and frustrating.

    Thanks for the advice, dato2014.
  • Lydia, I'm interested in why you've chosen to write about something (the ins and outs of modern romantic relationships) that you're now saying you don't feel you have the required experience to portray convincingly in fiction. What drew you to this topic? What is it you feel you have to say about it?

    Maybe it's because you like to read that kind of novel? If so, learn from those novels. Read as many as you can and distill the information down and down until you have a unique personal insight into what happens when two people are drawn to one another. It doesn't have to be first-hand experience to be convincing.

    If you don't like to read novels with a realistic romantic thread, then perhaps you're writing the wrong kind of book for you. The first reader you have to please is yourself. I can't imagine writing something I wouldn't want to read - it all takes so long there's no way I could put up with being stuck with something I didn't find interesting and exciting.

    I think it's worth taking a moment to consider what the story you *really* want to tell is. It doesn't matter if it's more autobiographical than the boy-meets-girl plot you seem to be considering in the above thread. Tales of isolation and hardship regularly feature on bestseller lists, so you could use your own life experiences to add authenticity to your story. Or take it in a different direction entirely, the choice is yours, but the important thing is it needs to come from you - very few authors can write successfully for a market they aren't personally interested in.
  • Never fails to amaze me, the quality of the advice this forum.
  • I'm hooked on the idea of romance. A demisexual person. Have watched all the classic films from yesteryear with all the dramatic themes pulsating through their plots. Absolutely enthralled by them, but realise now they were giving out a twisted view on romantic engagements and that there was a subtext to them and life that I have no experience of..

    Good advice. About reading up on some books with these themes. Decided that that would be for the best. To analyse them, make notes, and add the missing pieces of the jigsaw to my own writing. Will be difficult without a proper context, but feel it can be done...

    I like the idea of opening up the possibilities for future tales to include less obvious ones that hold sway in their own unique interpretations of those harshships. Certainly worth considering the topics that are not so frequently written about..
  • edited November 2016
    Never fails to amaze me, the quality of the advice this forum.
    But what's the point if it falls on deaf ears?



  • But what's the point if it falls on dear ears.
    Dear ears? :P
  • Oh God! DEAF!!
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