Subplots

Helen

I was wondering if anyone was struggling with subplots when writing their novel - do you show the subplot taking place in your novel by writing in that particular character's point of view? For instance, if it's another character's subplot, and not the protagonists (eventually, the subplot will affect the protagonist's main plot), do you write in that character's point of view? Does anyone use the third person omniscient when writing their subplots? Any advice would be great!! (I'm very pleased to finally have internet connection at home!).

Carol

Well in my novel the main sub plot is both direct and indirect at different times.
Yes there will be times when it comes from another character's viewpoint, and at other times it is the results of the actions of a main character.
I suppose it depends on the subplot on your story which you create or as it emerges.
It has never been something I've thought about.
If your subplot is taking over then it may be that it is the story, or it is a bigger story of it's own.

Helen

Thanks Carol!

Dwight

Helen, have you put in a sub-plot so that you have a sub-plot? Or is it a natural part of your originally devised story? My natural inclination would be to develop a story line IF IT ARISES, and always such that will crucially affect the main plot.

Carol

If it doesn't play a part in the story in some way, lose it.

Helen

Thanks for your replies - I was thinking that my novel would be better to have subplots in so the reader isn't just reading about the main plot. I do know what you mean, Dwight, that the subplot should arise from the main plot, and not to just put in a subplot for the sake of it. I think I got confused with the whole meaning of a subplot. :o) I wanted to know where it should start and when it should emerge during the story, and also who would be the main character during the subplot. I have been thinking about it again, and have decided to have two point of view characters now, and just write the main plot. Then see where the subplot can slot in, as I know there will definitely be one subplot in my story, which will affect the protagonist and her main plot. I need to get a grasp of the structure too. Thanks Carol and Dwight for your help.

Marc.B

Try re-visiting 'Airport' by Arthur Hailey. it's an old novel but has a great subplot concerning the protagonist's (Mel Bakersfeld) brother, Keith. Mel is trying to keep the airport open during a blizzard, the main theme of the story and his brother Keith, an air traffic controller is tormented by flashbacks from his experience of a mid air collision. It's brilliant, as sub plots go.

Helen

Thanks Marc.B - I will take a look at that. I've not heard of that novel before.

Stirling

I would advise against just 'sticking' a sub-plot in there.

My the main plot of my novel is kidnap (a rescue plot); but as a trigger of that main plot I have a sub-plot of the breaking down of a marriage that was already in trouble of one of my protaganists (I'm writing in the first person multiple.) The structure should be organic; and unable to see the stitches!

Carol

Agree you can't just stick a sub plot in.
As you write the main plot you will find the sub plot opportunities will emerge, it is just a case of asking what they are, and building from there.

I prefer to use third person multiple viewpoint for my novel. It is mainly the hero or heroine's viewpoint, but sometimes you need other characters to take over for a short time for being able to give important information or if they are the baddie, clues.

[quote=Stirling]unable to see the stitches! [/quote]
The sub plot must seem reasonable and believable to the reader.

Dwight

Helen - about switching Viewpoint Character (sorry to complicate your original query on sub-plots): I would imagine this has to be done delicately, so that the reader does not 'see the author' doing her mechanics. Emily Bront

Carol

It is always a good idea to read examples to see how other writers deal with it.
(And the viewpoint you choose will effect how you use your subplots.)

Perhaps you need to step back for a short time and let your brain mull it all over- your sub-concious will continue working on it in the background while you get on with life and other writing.

Have you written an outline for the story that you do know?
I know it doesn't work for everyone, as not everyone plans, but you clearly have the basic story, try writing it down and see what things suggest themselves to you. You may be surprised what you come up with- it may help you pinpoint possible sub-plots.

(Every writer has their own way of doing this- you just need to find what works for you) :)

Dwight

I too am a believer in the 'stimulus to the imagination' value of planning, Carol. Put down an outline of anything you have decided so far, from start of story to end of story (because no doubt you know these two already) and see what avenues and departures become available. You might like to try that, Helen.

Carol

Agree Dwight. I think Helen may find it a useful, and it may give some areas to consider.

Stirling

I'm more of a trial and error writer myself.

God how many errors I've made (and unpublishable pages I've written!) It's a learning curve; see which way your story and characters open up to you. When I started writing this novel (many drafts ago) I had no idea that the marriage was on the rocks; that a character was bisexual (only discovered that a couple of weeks ago - but looking back it was obvious).

I don't even think I had a decent motive for my crime! Just goes to show . . .

Helen

Thanks everyone for your replies!
CAROL - When you said that sometimes other characters will need to take over to give information, do you make sure that all those other characters have goals and a route right through the novel then? Like the main characters? Or will they just be subplot characters? Or do you use these characters just to give information to the reader possibly about the main character, possible clues about the main plot, or just to develop a subplot? I may be getting confused as to the connections between subplot and Point of View. (Probably sound really stupid now!) :o) I have got an outline of my plot which I did ages ago - you're right, I will see if any subplots emerge from that. I'm really grateful for everyone's help - much appreciated!!

dorothyd

Point of View is the way you tell the story, through whose eyes. For example, I have a teddy on the desk here (waiting to be sent to the States after Christmas) and I might take it into my head to write a story through his eyes. There is a second teddy, if I switch to his viewpoint I need to signal it to the reader by a line break, a new chapter, whatever. That has nothing to do with your sub plot, which is the secondary story.
As in ... Teddy is going to the States. Second teddy may decide to sabotage that trip. That's my point of conflict for the story. Shaun the Sheep alongside him here may decide to do something different for Christmas, but that 'doing' may impinge on the plans/scuppering of plans set in motion by the two teddies. That makes it a sub plot but it fits with the main story in its own way.
Not sure if this helps ...

Helen

Hi Dorothy - thanks a lot for your reply. Yes, it does help, thanks - but there's one question which is probably plain obvious, but I'll ask anyway: would you write the Shaun the Sheep's subplot in Shaun the Sheep's Point of View (third person limited, so reader will only know Shaun the Sheep's thoughts) or third person omniscient?

dorothyd

it would depend on how I was writing the story but I think I would go for third person omniscient.

Having written that storyline, I have to hope neither teddy nor Shaun the Sheep have read it, the teddies do need to go to the States without difficulties ... the Christmas teddies were couriered and even that went wrong, no one home to receive them! My friend is a teddy addict and her husband keeps saying 'no more bears!' so I sneak them in as and when I can ... with the help of her spirit companions!

If you can imagine them writing to me, through her, without her knowing, they take over completely, to discuss the bears ... how they are faring, are they excited about travelling to the States ... one of them is a Paddington and I was asked if Paddington would be a bit snobby to the others as he was special. I said no, but remember he is nearer Peru when in Vegas than he is from England so you had best look after him or he will take off for home. Back comes a message, we will get round that, we'll take his suitcase away ...

Carol

Sorry just got back from collecting the meat items from the butcher (apologies to all veggies) :)
Your sub plot characters don't need to be there in the end- because hopefully you've resolved that 'problem' before the end of the book.
But consider, everyone generally has a reason for what they do. Just by existing in that situation your sub plot character can effect those they come into contact with. People can be around for a long time, or just come into the scenario for a shorter time. Just like life.
Dorothy's teddy example is good.
Sorry if I've confused you more...

Helen

Hi Carol - no, you haven't confused me more at all! I am very grateful for yours, Dorothy's, and everyone's help. I think it's a good way to learn with questions and answers bouncing backwards and forwards.

Hi Dorothy - thanks for your reply - I only picked up the 'third person omniscient point of view' recently. Before, I was thinking I will only use the third person limited point of view. I think that is where I'm getting confused. It feels a lot clearer to me now, thanks to everyone's help here. I love Paddington! I've got a paddington keyring which was bought for me. I think it's lovely that you're sending the bears to your friend as she loves them so much. I am sure they will have a good trip. :o) Thanks again!

I am really looking forward to the Christmas break, and hope to write more now that I have got this confusion sorted. I hope you all enjoy your writing too! I will try and log on more often now that we have internet at home finally.

dorothyd

keep logging in here, Helen, you learn so much - I do - from many different answers to a query. Enjoy the writing. I plan to work flat out during this holiday, I am working half days here at the office but the rest of the time, Henry VIII here I come, your Katherine is ready to work ... (deadline February, must be in before that, 35,000 words to go and 2 queens to write about...)

Stirling

Me too Dorothy. I'm going home to Newcastle tomorrow for a week (so don't think I've gone awol - just a poor internet connection!) and I'm intending to get really stuck into the edit.

Helen

I hope you enjoy your writing, Dorothy. I work in an office too, but full-time. :o( Would love to be able to work part-time. It sounds like you will be very busy!

Hi Stirling - have a lovely time in Newcastle! I'm going up north on Christmas day to Leeds, we're staying at my fiance's Mum's house for 2 nights. We're taking my cat Maisy, so don't want to go over 2 nights as she'll get homesick. Hope your writing is going well too.

Stirling

Have a nice time!

Have you ever been to York? Beautiful city, and not too far away.

Helen

No, I haven't been to York before. I'm kicking myself as I lived in Leeds for 2 years back in 1998, and I never visited when I was so close. I'm back in Leicester now. I guess it's not that far to go, maybe one day. I probably won't have time when I go up there for Christmas, it'll be seeing family etc, which is nice.

dorothyd

With luck I am going to York next year, as that is where my publishers are based and it would be good to meet them all.

Carol

Enjoy your respective trips Helen and Stirling- safe travelling.

Helen

Thanks Carol! Hope you have a lovely Christmas.

Have a nice time in York, Dorothy - Enjoy! Have a lovely Christmas too.

Stirling

There are some gorgeous second hand book shops in York Dorothy. You'll have to go to Betty's tearoom - and the Minster of course.

I want to go down to York at Easter. They do production of the Mystery Plays every year; I want to do a Medieval Literature module in September so that would be great.

Helen

Have they got Betty's tearoom in York? I've been to the one in Harrogate - it was VERY nice. You must visit then, Dorothy. :o)

Stirling

I believe so. Down The Shambles I think.

Carol

You won't get out of the second-hand bookshops!!!!!

dorothyd

I will, because I need to go to the Richard III museum, the guy there is sooooooo gorgeous, (he sent me a photo) and I am dying to meet him!

Carol

:)

Helen

That's so funny, Dorothy. Sounds like something I would do. :o)

dorothyd

Well, there is an ulterior motive ... my first book in my historical series is about Richard III's 'wayward' brother George duke of Clarence so I will be going a) to see this gorgeous hunk and b) to see if he will stock the book!