Narrative and first/third person.

Katinkia

Am getting very confused with my latest story. In fact I have re-written most of my stuff numerous times in varying ways.

My latest story I am trying to make predominantly about the boy and the girl But as I introduce more characters I end up mind-hopping and exploring the new characters too much. A friend of mine that edits my work likes my narrative style of my latest story but I was reading in one of my books that narrative is very old-fashioned and out dated! I just tie myself in knots trying to describe things without going into narrative. Does this make any sense at all to anyone and does anyone have any advice?

I just can't seem to stick to any particular 'style' while I am writing.

k

dorothyd

style, otherwise known as your individual voice, only comes after a period of time. If you check out the thread that asks how our writing has changed over the years, you will see people mentioning developing their voice.
Narrative can be flat, it tends to fall into the TELL NOT SHOW syndrome, you TELL the reader what is going on rather than SHOWING them. The storyteller's maxim is SHOW DON'T TELL.
As in,
we said to Henry, you need to move
"Henry, move!" we shouted.
It is that simple but the art of good writing is balancing the narrative with the dialogue. Both are needed in equal proportions, otherwise people do not come alive. Limit the amount of characters you bring in. A story needs no more than 2 or 3, 4 at the most, otherwise it just gets confusing.

Carol

As Dorothy says show not tell, and that is when dialogue is so useful.
For anyone not sure how it works listen to a radio play- because all the words have to do the work that is so often done by visuals on screen.

dorothyd

good point, Carol - I used to listen to so much radio when I was growing up, plays, serials, and yes, it is a good way to think about dialogue.

Dwight

I was going to say the same, Carol. A swell idea, but my last post disappeared into the ether someplace.

I think "Show Not Tell" comes over as narrating the POV character's experience of the story through his/her five senses, then his feelings and emotions (yeah, let's get emotional about the story!). Telling the story from inside the viewpoint character's head. And it's easy to do this through dialogue.

Hope that helps, Katinkia.

Katinkia

I'm just going to keep practicing. Trying to just stick to one viewpoint also. When I started writing, I always wrote in first person but got shot down in flames for doing so by the not so nice people at literotica. I re-wrote them all again in third person but I was more comfortable writing in the first person. It is very confusing!

robin1

I agree with Katinkia, I find myself much more comfortable with first person. It seems to be more personal, whereas third personal feels more distant and as such not personal at all.

Not sure how else to explain it. Is that how you feel about about it Katinkia?

robin1

Maybe it makes us feel more involved in the story, rather than just another bystander looking in.

Dwight

I'd say it's a good idea coming at your writing from different angles, Katinkia, so that you are not a one trick pony.

robin1

That is true Dwight. Maybe you shouldn't write in your comfort zone, but write from the perspective that the story or the character(s) tell you they should be written in.

Stirling

If you feel more comfortable writing in first person, then write in first person.

If a magazine doesn't recognise first person as a legitimate way of writing erotica, then stuff them - they don't know what they are talking about anyway! My thoughts would be that erotica naturally lends itself to first person!!

robin1

Dmn, I find myself agreeing with everyone, inc. Stirling's comment...not being helpful. Aargh! Sorry Katinkia.

Stirling

You're correct Robin, third person is always distant by the very language used. I got shot down by another writer for saying this (but I have since studied this at Uni!)

First person is the 'dramaticising' of the consciousness and therefore subjective (as we all are); where as third person is objective and can never transcend its function of reporting thoughts.

I write third and first person. My first novel is in multiple first; and the second [now in the planning stage] is a mix of first and third.

robin1

Thank you Stirling.

I have an idea for a novel, and the strands needed to make it more than just my usual staple short stories. How did you begin yours, because this is the stage I find myself at. Just wonder if you could help me with this from personal experience?

Stirling

Erm, I've just checked out literotica and they seem more intereted in porno than good quality erotica. Seedy is the word that comes to mind. I dare say they know nowt about 'lit' (and more about pervy little men!!)

Have you checked out Absolute Write Katinkia? They have an erotica discussion board, I'll find the web address.

robin1

Saorry I was going off topic, my stuff isn't erotica, but I wondered if you were a research and plan writer or plan a little and let the rest come togther as you write.

Stirling

That's actually quite a hard question!

In my lectures, the lecturer talked about 'cognitive' verbs (i.e think, remember). I'll give you my first few sentences (first draft, please excuse me!):

"The doors of the nightclub swing open and the aggressive beat of music crashed into me. The nightclub covers two levels - this first crammed with a sweaty crowd crunching hard on what sounded like a carpet of glass. The air tastes of sex and girls. The DJ’s set is dark. On the stage above the crowd a male dancer performs his routine gyrating to the beat. A new dance track begins and a group of girls run to the dance floor. Heading down the steps into the chill-out lounge the room is dark but sultry. The air is quiet and heavy, only occasionally split by the roar of drink fuelled laughter. The floor and walls are all decked with dark-stained wood, a bleak picture made worse by the deep red leather sofas."

Stirling

Now you've said that Robin, I'm now thinking 's***, my novel sounds like erotica!' (its not, its psychological crime!)

Katinkia

Yeah literotica is a bit poor on reflection but it seemed a good place to post my efforts at the time. The comments and feedback I got though annoyed me. People would send me emails about the sanctity of marriage and all kinds of nonsense and people taking great offense at the subject matter which was clearly tagged bdsm etc. That's why I started my site and blog. I mostly get positive feedback from that but not much helpful feedback. I think people don't want to offend me but it does help for people to point out things to me that I may not have noticed. As long as it's obviously well meant I wouldn't take offence at all.

Stirling - Wow! I love the first lines of your story.

I shall google Absolute Write but again, with the subject matter of my erotica being bdsm a lot of erotica forums etc seem to be mostly focused on romantic or lesbian etc and those kinds of 'accepted' genres. I don't want to offend anyone with my work but am desperate to find somewhere to post where I can get some decent critique.

Stirling

Thanks for the confidence boost (been writing the thing for six/seven years! - all just a part of the learning process!)

Here is the link:

http://absolutewrite.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=43

They also have a 'share your work' forum or you could try and hook up with a 'beta reader.' I haven't tried this yet, but I have heard it can be brutal! As for the nonsense - there are always some idiots!

As for the first person question, I've done a quick google, and I haven't seen anyone discouraging first person. What kind of critique are you looking for? I've read a little erotica, so know little about the genre. If it's technical (writing) stuff, I would be happy to take a look.

Red

There are lots of poeple on here that will probably take a look at your work, Katinkia. Some are established writers and will perhaps offer critiques. I do lots of critiques, but I must admit I've never done erotica!

Stirling

You know, I have a 'how to' book on writing erotica. I'm going to look up this third/first person thing.

If you must know, I was writing a sex scene which I wanted to be erotic. So stop looking at me like that! (lol!)

Red

I avoid sex scenes at all costs! I try instead to lull the reader into an imagined sex; let them do the work.

Stirling

You see, that was the kind of book I was trying to find at Christmas (for my Gran)

I picked up a few books that looked good, but for all I knew could have been full of S&M style sex scenes. Not something you want to give a 94 year old lady! (she loves Catherine Cookson and Maeve Binchy.)

I don't write 'bodice ripper' types of sex. More 'emotionally charged.' I don't know if the scene will make this edit; as I've changed the subplot into the breaking down of a marriage - but still has sparks of sexual tension there.

Red

I don't think I could write full on sex scenes if I tried. I'd probably fall about laughing, so I admire those writers who can do it.

Katinkia

THanks for that site link Stirling. Have been reading it for a while and I think it will prove to be very helpful to me!

REd- THat is the problem! You do get very, very aware of what people will think when they read it that it can inhibit you quite a lot and I don't just write about 'normal sex'. My characters do all sorts - watersports, anal etc. Its a minefield when trying to describe it all without sounding too cliche'd. I find when I read bdsm erotica you get very similar scenes over and over. Not much character development (unless its an actual published book). I want more story to mine. I want them to be hot and turn people on but I always want them to give a toss about what happens to my characters after the sexy time. Therein lies the dificulty. But I shall keep trying!

Red

I admire your efforts to bring depth to your characters whilst retaining the erotic element. The only eroticism I've read is porn, therefore giving a toss about the people wasn't a prerequisite! But you can challenge yourself to write about different sex acts without being cliched. You just need to find that different edge, so yes, keep trying. You know what they say about practice, as it were...

Stirling

Glad its been useful to you!

I post over there as Gothic Angel.