Should I keep trying?

DeneBebbo

So far I've been unable to get anything accepted by The Oldie, having submitted a couple of travel pieces and some pieces for their Rant column. I want to submit another travel piece to them, but is it possible the editor might get fed up with receiving articles from an author he's never thought good enough to accept?

Speaking of submission quantity, I hope no one minds the number of threads I've started on this forum lately!

dorothyd

DB, you post writing type queries, keep them coming!
I just had 4 rejections from Liquid Imagination, but encouragement for the 5th one, would I add 100 words which I did, but - the editor and I were in discussion about the work generally. If you just get flat out rejection slips with no feedback, I think I would be tempted to offer the work somewhere else.

Phots Moll

DB, if you've only submitted a few pieces over an extended period of time, I think it might be worth a go. If you've sent dozens and got no encouragement at all then perhaps you should give them a miss for a while.

Have you tried sending the rejected pieces anywhere else? At least one of the women's magazines publishes a rant of the week slot and there are lots of places which consider travel pieces.

casey

I submitted a Rant and was asked to re-write toning it down a bit. I did so and it was passed to the commisioning editor. About a month later they published a Rant on the same subject, only slightly changed, written by the commisioning editor. If I were you I would try other mags. There's loads out there.

DeneBebbo

The thing with The Oldie is that I'm not sure if it's the subjects I pick that aren't passing muster, or my writing. When the rejection slip says that a piece "isn't quite right" it doesn't tell you a lot, unfortunately.

dorothyd

standard rejections never do, DB, more's the pity. Move on, yes?

ceka

DB, my sympathies are with you, and as Tosh says, you could give them a rest for a while - but definitely try elsewhere too. My Weekly does travel pieces - you'd need to e-mail them for their guidelines ([email protected]) and then follow them! But don't give up - have a long hard look at other travel pieces the Oldie has published and review your own in the light of that. Travel writing is very competitive (as I'm sure Claudia will tell you) and it's just a case of keep writing, keep sending.
Had you ever thought of the Saturday Telegraph's weekly competition 'Just Back' - short and sharp travel pieces on every imaginable destination/journey - including one trip across the Mersey!

DeneBebbo

ceka, thanks for the heads up about the Telegraph "Just Back" competition, I'll check it out.

snailmale

The Oldie provided my first ever rejection slip, a handwritten note on a small card which read: 'Alan, neither of these is right for us. I'm so sorry.'
There was a strange aura of polite gentility about this which amused me and I've kept it among my 'souvenirs.

DeneBebbo

Hi snailmale, my Oldie rejection slips have contained similar words, though in barely decipherable handwriting. Still, it's nice to have the personal element rather than a standard printed form.

Jay Mandal

Hi, DeneBebbo. Just a thought, not sure if it's a good one, but could you send you own rejection slip to The Oldie with your next submission, and ask if they'd mind ticking which box applies if they're not accepting it? Keep it short, though.

dorothyd

Not a good idea, Jay, that says 'I expect you to reject this item' which you don't want. I was told many years ago to put my MS in a large envelope and enclose a small one for return, to discourage people from returning it ... nonsense, it just got binned. No, you say 'this is wonderful, buy it' in so many words!

DeneBebbo

Great idea Jay. I may well do that as it's an easy way for me to get some kind of feedback which doesn't cost them much effort.

pragmatist

Well how about including a more generalised slip ? Something like (sure someone can tweak the questions/answers) :

Tick the box applicable and return in the SAE :

* We like your article and wish to publish it
* We like your article but feel it needs some additional work (please specify in the box below)
* The subject is not suited to us
* The tone is inappropriate to our magazine (please specify in the box below)
* We hate all writers and anyway I'm having a bad day (my husband's left me / I've got a cold / it was raining on the way to work, the bus was late and I got soaked ... please specify in the box below)

?????

Liz

Good idea Jay, I've sent tick boxes off for people, it doesn't take long for them to fill out so it's a great way of getting feedback - but do make sure there's some humour in it so that they are inspired to send it back.

I did tick box replies once when asking for promises for an auction, i made each 'ask' funny. Not only did I get a 75 % take up (WAY over what anyone else managed) they often sent longer replies - for instance I asked a writer of children's books, and she sent back the tick boxes but had also written little notes all over the form, telling me how she hated writing letters but this had made it easy, and another telling me how i would go far etc!

they were very similar to what pragamtist has suggested above.

dorothyd

Speaking as an editor, I would hate it if someone sent me something like that. I would consider it an impertinence ... your choice if you want to send it, just don't expect everyone to receive it in the light you sent it. A straight sensible letter, which shows the inherent belief that the article is good enough to be published and an SAE is what you need and all you need. As I said further up this thread, don't put the idea in their head they are going to reject!

Dwight

Quote Phot's Moll: sorry, copied because quot not working: If you've sent dozens and got no encouragement at all then perhaps you should give them a miss for a while.

Yes and no, PM. With an MS I would think first that the rejection meant I needed to put more work into my proposal. In other circumstances it may pay to persevere.

After the disgraceful 1983 General Election, I wrote daily letters to the national broadsheets, including a letter a day to the editor of the Guardian on a different aspect each time of the injustice of the electoral twist. It meant I had to buy those papers every day (Times, Independent, Guardian, Telegraph) to see if my letters had been printed. The outcome was a letter printed in the Guardian, then one in the Times. I think this last must have been some achievement, because some company wrote to me (this was before the days of email) offering to do me a framed print of my letter to certify that it had been published in the Times.

It was persistence that paid off, although, though I say so myself, I reckon my letters were all printable.

DeneBebbo

Liz, how do you judge what is humorous in the response slip and what might be considered cheeky or offensive? I like pragmatists idea, but think the last item could be taken the wrong way by an editor.

DeneBebbo

dorothyd, on the covering letter would it be worth mentioning to an editor that you'd be happy to do any re-work if it's nearly acceptable for publication, or can we assume that an editor would come back to us with this request anyway if they thought the piece is nearly there?

dorothyd

never ever mention you would do a rewrite! If you don't send the very best you can, then don 't send. I had this once, someone asking me to tell them where they should rewrite ... I rejected it out of hand. That is not the editor's job. If they like it but there are one or two things they would like to see altered, they will tell you.

I recently had an extended OWC entry accepted by an online magazine - Liquid Imagination. He asked for two tiny amendments. That is how it works, not you offering to rewrite, that says 'I'm not sure I did a good enough job here, can you help me make it better?' Repeat advice from above too, don't send anything 'funny' because as we know well from this board, humour can be taken in a number of ways and sometimes leads to arguments or upsets. The last person you wish to upset is your editor. Everyone views everything differently. Sorry, Pragmatist, I would reject your advice completely and stay on the right side of the editor At All Times.

boredrobots

I suppose you have to approach it the same way you would a job interview.

Would you send a covering letter, CV and a form saying:

"If you reject me for this position could you please tick a box to tell me why -

[ ] I wasn't right for the position?
[ ] Someone better caught your eye?
[ ] I'm over/underqualified?
[ ] I include creepy forms with covering letters?

dorothyd

You're right, BR

DeneBebbo

dorothyd, as an editor would you get annoyed if the same person sent you a different piece every few months but each time it wasn't suitable (for whatever reason)?

dorothyd

that's a tough one, but the answer is probably yes. I work on the basis that if you tried more than say four or five times and didn't get it right, you don't have the right 'touch' for the magazine, paper, whatever, but you may well find that it is exactly right for someone else. Best not to fixate on getting in one magazine, try others.

pbw

[quote=bored_robots][ ] I include creepy forms with covering letters? [/quote] :D

DeneBebbo

I decided to submit another travel piece to The Oldie. To improve my chances of acceptance I spent a lot of time examing some pieces they'd published to try and understand what works for them. Though it was good practice and I learnt some things in writing the piece, it was rejected. Not knowing where I'm going wrong with them it's time to strike The Oldie off my list of target publications.

gigi

Re doing rewrites.
I sent a short story to a literary magazine one year ago.
After a few months I queried if they were still interested and said I was happy for them to hold it if they were. I was told it was under consideration for publication - brilliant.
After another few months it was finally returned with a suggestion that I do some rewriting in one section and that they might be interested in it.
I sent it to another magazine who have published my work within the past few months. Success.

Dwight

Well done, Gigi. Sounds like it was a good story to start with, but it never hurts to improve your work before sending it out again.

gigi

Thank you Dwight, I realised after I wrote this post that, in an effort to keep it short, I had not followed through on the point under discussion.
I do believe that one should rewrite where necessary and certainly if asked to do so by an editor. In this case I decided since they'd already held my piece for 10 months and just 'might' be interested if I did a rewrite and with the possibility that they might hold it for another 10 months before deciding (I am aware that most small press/literary magazines are short staffed) I just sent it elsewhere. Where I knew it would get a more instant response.
I don't particularly like rewrites but will happily edit and re-edit before sending stuff out.

Dwight

I don't mind doing re-writes when I can see how my original needs to change, because I can see the improvements taking shape.

gigi

Has anyone, yourself included Dwight, done a rewrite on a novel?
I have had interest expressed in a novel by two publishers who have asked to see the complete Ms then suggested a rewrite.
I know exactly why and where they are 'coming from'. I have a problem with getting enough conflict going between my characters.
I just find the task so daunting and have edited and re-edited this book so much that at the moment I don't want to look at it!
I realise that if I don't take these suggestions and run with them, I shall never get this book published.
Perhaps the New Year will bring a new focus and I'll get stuck in!

dorothyd

gigi,
I channel books from spirit authors, their life stories. I channelled Guy Fawkes' story, sent it to my editor who promptly came back with a list ... so we had to do some radical adding and altering and sorting! You can do it, because the potential to sell the book is there and you can't throw that away!
Paperbackwriter has been through the rewrite bit so ... with any luck ...
May I suggest you start a new thread with this, so it doesn't get overlooked?