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connected together?

memamema
edited December 2010 in - Writing Problems
I'm editing my novel, just came across 'two brain cells connected together', and realised that when two things are connected they are together.
Is then 'connected together' like 'return back' (?pleonasm)?

Comments

  • JennyJenny
    Tautology?
  • dorothyddorothyd
    definitely tautology
  • MutleyMutley
    the thought of a tautological pleonasm always made me laugh. :)
  • SilentTonySilentTony
    Surely it isn't tautological in this instance. Two things may be connected but not necessarily together. Connected suggests a link of sorts but doesn't define the approximation or geographical bond. Saying 'connected together' solidifies the idea that the two are chained to each other in a close proximity.


    This is only the case if it fits with the context though.
  • CarolCarol
    I'd agree about context.
    If it was a pleonasm then it would be the 'together'.
  • aeschylusaeschylus
    When I was a young graduate bank clerk, the branch was deafened by the so-called senior manager bellowing his dictation of his interview notes out of an open office (I kid you not...his name was Cyril Barker). Natwest Beverley c.1984/5.

    Anyway his favourite term was "revert back". For the Latinists among us (re meaning back/again) this was painful.

    "Connected together" isn't so bad because con is the same as our "with". Degrees of closeness, I think.
  • B L ZebubB L Zebub
    edited December 2010
    Eh????? Oh, I seeeee - a bit like an old English teacher of mine (junior school) saying "Let's go back forward to the first paragraph", after he'd "reverted back" to the last one... I think... Dooohhhh.....
  • JennyJenny
    [quote=mema]I'm editing my novel[/quote]

    I knew how Mema started this thread - so why did I just read that as "I'm editing my navel"? :rolleyes:
  • memamema
    [quote=Jenny]I knew how Mema started this thread - so why did I just read that as "I'm editing my navel"? [/quote]

    of course it's my navel! It's my first finished novel
    ;)
  • JennyJenny
    That explains everything!!
  • DwightDwight
    [quote=Jenny]That explains everything!! [/quote]

    This could be overstating the case.

    Can anyone explain to me the difference between tautology and redundancy in the case of 'connected together'?
  • JennyJenny
    [quote=Dwight]This could be overstating the case.[/quote]

    I agree that it doesn't explain every mystery in the history of the world!
  • SilentTonySilentTony
    I guess that tautology is expressing the same idea in different ways where as redundancy is using words that give no extra information.

    So saying' He's a big giant' is tautology. The most famous redundancy now is probably the anger inducing ATM machine. Because ATM stands for , Automatic (mated?) Teller Machine, saying machine after it is a redundant extension that really annoys some pendants. I often laugh at this one because I think it sounds ok and I've heard people say 'I'm going to the AT machine' which sounds silly to me.

    Best stick to cashpoint I think.
  • Lou TreleavenLou Treleaven
    I remember a comedian saying he thought the phrase Old Age Pensioner was cruel because it was pointing out the same thing three times!
  • JennyJenny
    Quite a few people say "small little .."
  • dorothyddorothyd
    and how many people say PIN number?
  • DwightDwight
    Another one is MOT test.
  • DwightDwight
    Silly me, I've just realised it means MInistry of Transport test.
  • SilentTonySilentTony
    Yeah PIN number is another that has people fuming. I've feigned fury about it myself a few times as a joke and nobody realised what I meant until I pointed it out. I've never heard MOT test though.
  • dorothyddorothyd
    the pesky ATM (machine) for Natwest says enter your PIN number and I asked the business manager to get it changed. He said they are all like it ...
  • SilentTonySilentTony
    edited December 2010
    I think we have to accept that when things have acronyms associated the acronym itself becomes a conceptual word in peoples minds. SO ATM doesn't mean Automated Teller Machine, it means cashpoint as a concept. So we say we are going to the cahspoint machine, or the ATM machine. PIN is the same. It doesn't mean Personal Identification Number any more. It means the code we need to access our bank server. So we say PIN number, the number for the access code.
  • dorothyddorothyd
    I have had a few people actually say,' please enter your PIN' - I stop in surprise and they think I'm not hearing them. I am, just surprised, is all. Thank goodness for the few. Restores my faith in humanity as a whole, well, partly.
  • SilentTonySilentTony
    I only say PIN Dorothy and I guess that's more about me being around when it came into common usage. Now people have just heard PIN number so often it is the real phrase to use for them
  • JennyJenny
    edited December 2010
    Does anyone else find it odd that there are people who make judgements about our intelligence, based on whether we say PIN or PIN number?!!
  • SilentTonySilentTony
    Jenny I find it odd that people make judgements of intelligence in anything to do with language.
  • heatherheather
    My dad always called it a 'flashpoint' and it stuck, so we never say ATM, followed by machine or not.

    I do say PIN number without thinking, though, even though I know it is wrong and I am horrified to realise that I do it and promise to try harder in future.
  • SilentTonySilentTony
    The thing about spoken communication is that it has to convey the point precisely to the person being spoken to. It's also better received, remembered and continued if the turn of phrase, vocabulary and delivery are above the norm. Or sparkling as writers would probably call it.

    So if you pass information and it is collected clearly by the other person you have fulfilled the main and first role. It doesn't matter if it is correct or not. Everything else is just a bonus.
  • heatherheather
    Very true.

    If I just said PIN to my mum she'd be looking for her sewing box.
  • JennyJenny
    I don't even know if I say PIN or PIN number. I could get a complex about this!!
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