Amy Winehouse died - sad but no surprise really.

edited July 2011 in Off-topic
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-14262237
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Comments

  • Oh, I'm utterly shocked. Such a sad loss of young life. Her poor family.
  • Oh no. How sad. I'm shocked too.
  • The usual crass comments below the article. Can't people have some respect at a time like this?
  • That is sad, especially for her poor family - they've been unable to help for a long, long time.
  • Not surprising really, but very sad. What a waste.
  • I am shocked it is very sad.
  • I feel very sorry for her, caught in a downward vortex. In a way, this highlights how wretched human misfits, especially in the lower registers of society - even criminal types - are to be pitied as not having full control over their paths through life.
  • It's very sad news. I feel very sorry for her family who tried so hard to help her.
    The abuse she'd subjected her body to put her at risk of death a couple of years ago and perhaps the damage has finally caught up with her.
  • [quote=Daisy]Oh, I'm utterly shocked. Such a sad loss of young life. Her poor family. [/quote]

    It is a real, real tragedy. That wonderful, exceptional talent. I love her music.

    My condolences to her family.
  • Just got home and saw the news on G+ had to check on the BBC to make sure it wasn't a joke. I'm gutted. I'm a real fan and was looking forward to her new album. Probably the best singer songwriter this country has produced in long, long time.
  • So sad.
  • Amy Winehouse dying at 27 seems to fall in with a macabre rock and roll tradition.Jim Morrison, Jimi Hendrix, Brian Jones, Kurt Cobain and Janis Joplin were all 27 when they died too. All were troubled souls who also lived life on the razor's edge.
  • Not shocked, given her problems - but so terribly, terribly saddened by this news. She was such a wonderful talent.
  • Not shocked as her lifestyle was making it likely, but saddened at the waste of a young life
  • I am desperately sad, though not surprised at the death of Amy. I'm a massive, massive fan of her music, an incredible talent. But from the moment I first played Back to Black - I knew. And that was before any of the publicity about her lifestyle. She was a genius. I hope she is in a better place now.
  • I guess we all knew she wouldn't make old bones, but even so.... Too young. I'd always hoped she'd be able to turn her life around.
    She's found the peace she couldn't find in this life. RIP.
  • What a waste, she had an awesome voice. :-(
  • [quote=SilentTony]Amy Winehouse dying at 27 seems to fall in with a macabre rock and roll tradition.Jim Morrison, Jimi Hendrix, Brian Jones, Kurt Cobain and Janis Joplin were all 27 when they died too. All were troubled souls who also lived life on the razor's edge.[/quote]
    Here is an article from 2008 where she is quoted as saying she was worried about 'joining the 27 Club'.

    http://www.starpulse.com/news/index.php/2008/12/28/amy_winehouse_fears_joining_the_27_club_
  • I have never been a fan of her music, but I appreciate she was gifted in her chosen vocation. To die, aged only twenty- seven, in those circumstances is tragic. RIP Amy Winehouse.
  • Yes, very sad. RIP.

    But interesting comments on BBC news this morning from mental health conference. Apparently research to suggest that twenty seven is a huge watershed with many addictions... you move from teenage experiments on a big bender, to the more heavy stuff, and if you hit late twenties and are still on the drugs/booze etc, that's the time you realise that you're totally out of your depth, and you feel you'll never get free so why bother even trying.

    If I find some links later when less pressed I'll post...
  • Yes it is very sad for someone to die so young but very sadly, she did not persevere with the detoxification from drugs and the drink. The ones I really feel for are those Norwegian teenagers who did not chose to die but were cruelly cut down by a maniac. I am not being unfeeling, any of you but if she wanted to survive, she could have said no to drugs. Those kids who were killed or seriously injured, not to mention traumatized by the incident in Norway, would have given anything to have lived and enjoyed their summer holiday - they are the ones who deserve true sympathy for their plight. Norway is not used to incidents of that kind for they are quiet peace loving people who have not experienced anything like this since the war. I know someone who worked for the Norwegian underground/resistance, the true hero of Telemark who spent the war up in the mountains with a small pocket of men engaging in resistance. In fact he had been asked by a friend whose husband had left Norway via the mountains into Sweden which was neutral, to come and pick up a special radio[those who know anything about that period, will know that if anyone was caught with one of those, were in grave risk of being sent to Germany to be killed or shot on the spot. He left by the back as the woman concerned saw a bit of German activity not far from her house. Fortunately it was Christmas at the time but a German officer offered to take his heavy case to the tram stop. He remarked it was heavy but the chap concerned said they were heavy woollen jumpers. Given the time of year, being winter, he was believed as they really dress for the conditions. The officer wished him a Merry Christmas before they parted company. You must have heard of the Shetland Bus which plied across the North Sea to rescue refugees and airmen, some of the members were killed. This makes the entire incident all the more poignant, much more so than Amy Winehouse I am afraid.
  • I don't think there's a competition for sympathy here, Woll. The Norway tragedy is horrendous, absolutely dreadful. I have a friend living in Oslo who is devastated and my heart goes out to him and all these innocent victims and their families.
  • Sorry I tend to agree with Woll, her fate was in her own hands, although sad. Whereas those Kids did not have a choice.
  • I agree with LilyC. It isn't a competition - we can have sympathy for the victims of the terrible incidents in Norway and also have sympathy for someone who wasn't strong enough to pull her life back together. We don't have to rank them in order of importance.
  • edited July 2011
    Agree with heather. Unfortunately there is often more than one story in the news that attracts our thoughts.
  • edited July 2011
    Wait a minute I must have missed the memo that informed us we could only grieve one death or one tragedy at time. What if some people in Oslo smoked should we grieve the none smoker above those?

    [quote=Woll22]if she wanted to survive, she could have said no to drugs.[/quote]

    Well there we go. The whole multi-billion dollar investment in trying to heal people suffering from addiction has just been solved in one sentence. We can use all that spare cash to pump back into the economy now.

    I'm sorry if this has come over as being harshly sarcastic but I'm astounded by these comments. A young woman died yesterday and left parents, friends and family behind to mourn her. She had an illness that looks like it may have eventually stolen her life away. Yes she was a great and true talent and for that it's a loss to the world, but even if she was a school dinner lady or a till girl in Tesco it would still be a tragedy.

    As writers you should all be aware of the links between creativity and depression. Having the soul of a writer and artist sometimes takes people to the edge of life due to the pursuit of the art itself and often with the rewards of accomplishment. She wrote such beautifully raw words that she wove between melodies balanced on the darkness and light of her life. This truth and this creation should be celebrated by those who know how difficult and rare such a talent is. Whether you liked or loathed her manipulated persona in the press, you cannot deny she had a gift.

    I agree the massacre in Norway was shocking, brutal and will have repercussions for decades to come. The horrific slaughter of those people has disgusted the world. But if we are to compare grief by numbers then Oslo is nothing compared with the daily tragedy in Somalia right now. Should we capture our tears for Norway on tissues and send them floating to Africa instead?

    A life is a life and even a single death will hurt and destroy many left behind. So let's stop being mathematicians with mortality and agree that our hearts and our thoughts are big enough for all those who are no longer with us as this weekend closes.
  • I've been thinking about this quite a bit.

    Firstly can anyone remember who died the same day as Michael Jackson? Farrah Fawcett - but it was only mentioned briefly as Michael being the more famous took most of the press. It is unfortunate how the press handle these things.

    Secondly, I do not accept that addiction itself is an illness, (no more than obesity is). I think there are illnessess that can make people more open to addiction, depression being possibly one of the biggest ones. Some people are just too weak and are influenced by their peers, wanting to fit in and then it is too late.

    There is help out there if they want it, but for some it is too hard to imagine changing, it is their choice. Some people want to die, life being too much for them. It is a choice, maybe not always a conscious one but it is a choice, they can stop, they can ask for help, they chose not to.

    I have no sympathy for them, I am sorry but I don't. I feel sorry for the families who have to deal with a relative that has these problems as there is only so much they can do and to watch someone on the way to self-destruction must be devastating.

    I have friends who have been at rock bottom and have managed to claw themselves back, one in particular who will call me and talk if they are feeling as though they will slip back down, I will always be there for her because she is trying and she wants my help. I know though that if she ever makes that choice that she no longer wants to go on then that is her decision, no matter how I try I cannot change her. It is not my job to do so, but I can support her for as long as she asks me to do so.

    I can't help but wonder how many people really listened to Amy, and how many just tried to keep her going to ensure that the gravy train just kept on rolling.
  • I have seen myself ( a member of my family) how hard it is for someone to try and deal with a drug addiction. It's not that easy, despite having the help of friends and family. It's just not a simple thing to suddenly wake up one day and think I will stop taking drugs and say no.
  • I know nothing about addiction, but isn't that part of their torture - that they want to give up, but can't? Addictive personalities abound, some find drugs and alcohol, but the lucky ones don't.
  • [quote=kateyanne]I have seen myself ( a member of my family) how hard it is for someone to try and deal with a drug addiction. It's not that easy, despite having the help of friends and family. It's just not a simple thing to suddenly wake up one day and think I will stop taking drugs and say no.
    [/quote]

    I agree, but then again anything that is worth doing is never an easy option. You can't make someone do something they don't want to either.
  • I think that's a massively simplistic approach to addiction Neph. Addiction can be like cancer to some people. It eats away and no matter what they try to heal themselves it eventually kills them. I don't think we would walk into cancer wards and tell people to just stop having cancer would we.
  • [quote=SilentTony] Addiction can be like cancer to some people. It eats away and no matter what they try to heal themselves it eventually kills them.[/quote]

    I disagree, you cannot compare the two, my dad died from a brain tumour, he did everything he could, tried every treatment but due to circumstances beyond his control it killed him. An addict can make a choice, do everything they can and become clean, it is up to them, I do not care how bad the addiction is, the only person that can do anything about it is the addict themselves, a cancer patient cannot cure himself.

    It is the same as someone who blames their weight and says they cannot help themselves. They can, it isn't easy but at the end of the day it is something they can do something about.

    [quote=SilentTony] don't think we would walk into cancer wards and tell people to just stop having cancer would we.
    [/quote]

    No but at the same time did some bloke say 'here try this lymphoma it's great, or how about an ounce of lukemia, go on give it a go'. Addicts have a choice to say no, I am not saying that everyone is strong enough, but sometimes I think it is too easy to say they couldn't help themselves.
  • I can scarcely believe some of these comments. Think I'd better stop reading this thread before I blow a gasket.
  • None of us is perfect and we all have our weaknesses. People make bad choices all the time - eat too much, smoke, drink too much, take drugs, drive too fast, play dangerous sports, not do enough exercise, get too stressed out, mix with the wrong people, be careless with DIY etc and any number of other things over which there are choices. Of course we have to take responsibility for our actions, but we all make mistakes and we don't always know where our choices are going to lead and then find ourselves unable to deal with the consequences.

    Personally, I'm just sad that someone has died, even if it is as a result of mistakes they made in their lives.
  • Claudia, I know exactly what you mean, but, if you think about what Tony said, ie this:

    [quote=SilentTony]As writers you should all be aware of the links between creativity and depression.[/quote]

    ... and if you've been there and know what it's like to be addicted to something, and i mean REALLY addicted to something, then the crass comments that have appeared above, will simply be just crass comments and of no value at all.

    Love and kisses to you all

    dorakins xx
  • Neph my comparison to some cancer patients does stand.

    [quote=Neph] tried every treatment but due to circumstances beyond his control it killed him. [/quote]

    That quote proves my point. If she or the others had control they would have stopped. But addiction is when you have no control so it was beyond her to stop and it killed her. I think there's a confusion between habit and addiction on here. Addiction is an illness and/or also the symptom of mental illness.

    If you want to lose weight you may stop drinking wine or eating take-aways. It may be tough to do and you may fail. But these are habits and can be adjusted through will power or mental strength. An alcoholic cannot just quit booze however, in the same way a cancer patient cannot quit cancer. Both may be treatable and even curable, but both are also a disease that needs a great mental strength to overcome if either sufferer is to have any chance. In either case that disease may kill. The death of an addict has nothing to do with being too weak to just say no, as much as the death of a cancer patient isn't the result of refusing to give up cancer.
  • I still cannot accept your argument Tony, so we will have to agree to disagree. Maybe personal experience alters my perception but I cannot see how the two can be related.
  • Fair enough Neph and I'd never want this to be an argument so I accept that. Saying that however I have to add that my mum also died after suffering with aggressive cancers just over two years ago and I seriously think there's hardly any difference between her death and that of an alcoholic or heroin addict.
  • I should have said your point of view, I never veiw our debates as an argument (I quite enjoy them). I still think there is an issue of choice which makes it different, but death in any form is sad.
  • Maybe addiction is a choice; but between what alternatives? All of these stars who have died through drugs at 27 didn't take them to make themselves feel bad, or to be ill, or to die young. They took them because no matter how famous they were, they were still themselves - there was no escape, but they tried to find one through chemicals. They had talents which coincided with what the public decided it wanted at that time. But money and performing and all that goes with the spotlight didn't undo the basic problem that they all seem to have carried around - a need for a crutch to get them through the crawling minutes of every ordinary day. Becoming famous didn't turn them into anyone else: Amy was still Amy, Jim and Jimi still the people they always were. The people around them wanted them for the rub of fame, or for their money, or for their money-making potential, as well as for their undeniable talents. Who told them, though, that it was okay to be themselves?
    Some people have an addictive personality; they are dependent. it's not a choice, it's an illness. It's possible that in the future there will be a discovery of an addiction gene, or some such physical reason. There are people who go through detox and never go back to their particular poison - they are the lucky ones, but also they probably have a lesser addiction level, and/or a very strong support structure at home.
    Every tragic, unplanned, undesired death is one too many, however it is caused. In Norway, a man chose to go out and kill the unarmed and unready. In Amy's case, who knows? The autopsy may reveal the truth. There is nothing right about any of this. Comparison is odious.
  • It is known that some people are addictive personalities and it can be harder for them to conquer their addictions, they do fail, often- which probably explains why some go into rehab time after time.

    Like any addiction they have to want to overcome it. But the person may not be strong enough to do it.
    Human beings are vunerable, they can be bright, strong or weak, or not very bright.
    She lived and worked in an industry that can bring out the destructive aspects, as many other singers and muscicians can testify. Some do manage to survive the near destruction, others succumb, and sadly she seems to have succumbed.
  • Hasn't it already been scientifically proven that a propensity towards alcoholism - based on genetics - runs in families? It is never as easy as simply making a choice to give up an addiction. This is why alcoholics never consider themselves to be 'cured', but instead remain 'recovering' alcoholics.

    I felt very sad about Amy Whitehouse - a waste of a talented, young life.
  • edited July 2011
    Whilst I have total sympathy for her poor parents, who evidently have total grief and (unecessary) guilt etched into their faces when greeting the fans today, I have to quote a short phrase that's floating across Facebook and other Social Networks:

    "Do Drugs, Do Alcohol - Do Die" - not exactly a role model to youngsters at all, I feel.

    Sorry to be a bit hard on her here, but from what little I've heard of her songs, I personally won't miss her, or her notoriety in the media. She should have stuck to the treatment & cleaned-up her act - I would have had more respect for her - but the burn-out was utterly inevitable...

    Sad, indeed - but not surprising at all...
  • Hi all,

    There's obviously some differences of opinion about the nature of addictions on here! But thought some of you might find this interesting if you haven't seen it. It's insightful as you'd expect, and I think it's a great piece of writing too.

    http://www.russellbrand.tv/2011/07/for-amy/
  • Am I the only person who doesn't find this remotely sad? Why should I be sad? I didn't know Amy and I didn't even like her music. I'm not in touch at all with celebrity gossip or even the music scene, so I know barely anything about her. All I know is that she was stupid enough to start taking drugs and so I'm afraid I can't feel any sympathy for her. Nobody's above being judged, and I don't think it's wrong to judge someone for engaging in something she must have known from the start would have serious effects on her health. People have shown some strong opinions on this thread, but I don't think it makes me a bad person to give her death a passing, apathetic thought and then move on with my life. After all, that's more attention than the thousands of junkies who die every year get from strangers.

    I do, however, feel for her family and friends and I hope that they can overcome what is, for them, a devastating tragedy.
  • [quote=femaleking] Nobody's above being judged[/quote]

    I wouldn't agree with that because as you already stated you know nothing about her so how can you judge her? I think any human who finds apathy and not even the smallest amount of sadness in the passing of another human is somewhat lacking. We are all brothers and sisters in this world, all created from the same dust and all part of the same family. If one of us is in pain or dies then I do feel empathy for them.

    If we don't then doesn't that makes us alone on this big blue rock?
  • edited July 2011
    [quote=femaleking]Am I the only person who doesn't find this remotely sad? Why should I be sad? I didn't know Amy and I didn't even like her music. I'm not in touch at all with celebrity gossip or even the music scene, so I know barely anything about her. All I know is that she was stupid enough to start taking drugs and so I'm afraid I can't feel any sympathy for her.[/quote]

    I agree with you 100% Femaleking. I was not a fan and will not morn her passing but I do feel for her family and friends.
  • [quote=SilentTony] you already stated you know nothing about her so how can you judge her?[/quote]

    I know that she took drugs and that is the one and only thing I'm judging her for. Is that not fair?

    People are only equal as long as you look at them in a general way, Tony. As soon as you look at humanity through an individual's eyes, some people become more important than others. That's not callous - it's normal. It doesn't make me alone not to spend my time mourning people I don't know - it just means that I'm being honest with myself that the people who matter to me are my family and friends. I don't want to be guilt-tripped by society into feeling sad for every person I see die on the news, and I certainly don't want the media to decide which junkies matter and which don't. I just don't have enough empathy for everyone in the world, so I save it for the people who really matter to me. It's just my way of treating people fairly.
  • I haven't paid much attention to this, but noticed a small item on the text service saying her parents intend to set up a foundation to help those who are addicted to drugs. They were saying that to get treatment it is a ytwo year wait unless you can pay for it.

    Obviously you have a choice at the start whether you take the junk in the first place, but obviously once you are hooked you need help to get off it, and the longer you are on them the less chance there is of getting off them. So the sooner you can give addicts the help they need to get off them, the better.
  • [quote=femaleking] some people become more important than others. That's not callous - it's normal. [/quote]

    I think that's an abhorrent way to think. [quote=femaleking]I don't want to be guilt-tripped by society into feeling sad for every person I see die on the news, [/quote]

    This isn't about guilt it's about sympathy and more important, empathy. You say you don't want the media to decide which junkies matter and which don't. To me they all matter because they are people.

    [quote=femaleking]I just don't have enough empathy for everyone in the world, so I save it for the people who really matter to me.[/quote]

    Without meaning to sound harsh, but to give a personal point, if I thought like that I'd sooner be dead. We are only people if there are others around us. Some we love and care for and some are strangers. But because they are all humans and all part of us means we should feel empathy for all. Isn't that what charity is about, love, respect, kindness? If I no longer cared for even one single human on this planet then I no longer care for myself, because we are all family and all one.
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