using the correct words

Nutmeg

Nutmeg

what is the difference in using "I shall" and "I will" in a sentence?
And any others anyone can think of that are commonly used wrong?

mcbemused

One is spelt with a 'sha' and the other with a 'wi'.  Both relate to doing something in the future, though 'will' is more definite than 'shall'.  Either is correct English as she is spoke.

Carol

Ageee with the 'will' being more definite than 'shall'.
But I would also say that 'shall' suggests a more formal language use.
I can't see anything wrong with using either in current language fluidity.

Jay Mandal

Simplest thing is to abbreviate, then it doesn't matter.

I'm not certain about this, but it might be I/we shall and he/she/it/they/you will. (There might be something similar for should and would in some circumstances - which escape me at the moment.)

Speaking of which, there are rules about which and that but, as I can never remember them, I won't try to explain. There's a thread somewhere, but it'll probably be hard to find.

Jay Mandal

Turned out to be remarkably easy!

which or that

See Betsie's post.

By the way, has anyone noticed that there've been very few posts done by men recently?

Celtic C

I agree Jay - that's what I was taught even though it does not always seem to apply now.

heather

According to my Nelson guide, it looks like 'shall' is only ever used for I/we and simply expresses the future tense, whereas I/we 'will' conveys wish and determination. For he/she/they it's always 'will'.

Jay Mandal

Cinderella: "You shall go to the ball!"

By the way, Heather, what are you doing up so early?

heather

Yes, that is a funny one - as the shall seems to imply determination on the part of someone else. I'll look it up tomorrow in the new grammar book I got for Christmas if I remember.

Just can't sleep I'm afraid Jay - for some reason woke up and started thinking about this time last year when something very upsetting happened and it all came flooding back, despite it being resolved long ago. Maybe not as resolved as I thought it was. Or, hopefully, just a 'things worse in the middle of the night' thing.

Jay Mandal

Hope things sort themselves out and you catch up on your sleep.

And, before anyone mentions it, yes, I know it was the Fairy Godmother that said it. I just meant the pantomime.

Jay Mandal

Could/Should/Would've = could have etc NOT could of.

"Between you and I" is NOT correct.

And "I" is spelt with a capital letter unless you're deliberately trying to annoy me.

Jay Mandal

Oh, and "it's" = it is/it has. It is NOT the possessive/genitive case (think her/his/its eyes).

mcbemused

Heather - if things are going over and over in your head, try a spot of Bach's flower remedy, White Chestnut, on your tongue.  Stops the mind going round in vicious circles a treat.

heather

Thanks for that mcbemused - I've used the rescue remedy before, but never the white chestnut so will give it a try.

Back on thread - oh dear, it's quite complicated. Apparently some books devote 20 or more pages to the will/shall rules. However, my book states that most people tend to accept whatever comes naturally. As a brief summary:-

I/we shall - predicts, foretells, surmises
I/we will - promises, threatens, warns
You/he/they etc shall - promises etc
You etc will - predicts etc
Shall I/we?  - asks for orders
Will I/we? - asks for a prediction
Shall you? - asks for a prediction
Will you? - makes a request
Shall he/she/they? - asks for orders
Will he/she/they? - asks for a prediction

Same applies to should and would except should is reserved for the first person. (Unless should is being used as 'ought to' or to express a condition, as in 'If it should rain..') Would can also express a condition as well as habitual past action (every night we would...)

In modern usage should survives mainly in statements as above and shall in question such as 'Shall I get the door?'. Will and Would are usual in all other contexts.

Phew!

Nutmeg

woah that is confusing...hee...

Carol

And does the reader care? As long as they understand the context it is used in. It probably only matters to us and the editor.

Cava Queen

in answer to Jay's earlier posting

" By the way, has anyone noticed that there've been very few posts done by men recently"

It's because they are all still doing the Xmas washing up, Jay!  Either that or they're busy playing with the kids toys. 

Daisy

Or working their way through all the crosswords and puzzles in the newspapers at the moment - as my husband is.

dorothyd

our private refuse collector person came yesterday and I made the mistake of asking about Christmas.  He spent five minutes telling me about the 'boys' toys' helicopter he got which has such a fine control you can make the thing hover anywhere you like ... so they are very likely busy playing with their new toys.

Carol

One of my boys got a small remote control helicopter, it took a day to learn how subtle he needed to be on moving the controls to get it to hover.

Nutmeg

so now you know why dad's buy toys for their boys...my dad admitted this in church the other day...!

Jay Mandal

And don't get to/too/two muddled up.

Nutmeg

how about no-one and no one?

Jay Mandal

I'm not sure you need the hyphen.

No one is here.

No one person thinks exactly like another.

Nutmeg

and alright or all right? Perhaps that's just a South Africanism...like saying I will do something just now means a bit later, not now...

Jay Mandal

All right is all right. Alright is all wrong!

Nutmeg

thanks...i'm sure i've seen it in a few books but can't be sure anymore...silly south africanisms...

Nutmeg

okay another one... when do you use around and when do you use round?

Mutley

It's funny Jemma, so many of these come naturally as you think and write but then when you are pushed to define them, you find yourself completely at a loss. Or maybe it's just me.

Carol

I would use 'around' in ways such as, 'he was hanging around the streets', while 'round' is a circle- though you might say 'he was going round the corner'.
I never know all these exact terms, I'd have to look them up.
I go by how I was taught to use them, or how they 'sound'.

Nutmeg

yeah...I agree there... while i've been writing the last few pages of my first draft I have found a few words that i actually don't know when to use properly...sometimes it's all right because it's someone speaking and they might speak like that but...

Carol

One of the delights of the English language, constantly changing, and the influence that informal useage can have on the written word.

Nutmeg

i am now editing my story and am coming across some things that i am not sure about...
Toward or Towards?

Carol

What is the context it is in?

Nutmeg

"he walked toward(s) the man"

Jenny

I'd say towards.

Carol

Towards sounds better, but you could equally use toward.

Nutmeg

thanks...i suppose which ever one i choose i should keep it uniform throughout...thanks

Carol

Try reading the section out loud both ways with a couple of sentences before and after, and see which you prefer.
I'd use toward in a more formal way, and towards in a more informal way- hope that hasn't confused you.

Nutmeg

it hasn't confused me, don't worry...

thanks.

Carol

:)

Stan2

I would use towards in the sentence 'he walked toward the men'. I often puzzle over 'who' and 'that'. And my computer spelling/grammar check insists on a comma before which. But some of our magazine proof readers say 'delete the comma'.

Carol

The computer spell checker and grammar has its uses, but sometimes it tells you to do something which you know is grammatically wrong, so go with your own thoughts and click 'ignore rule'.

Stan2

I often click 'ignore rule'.

Carol

:)

Stan2

Ever smiling Carol!

Carol

Well we have to smile, otherwise we'd encourage wrinkles from all the frowns!

Stan2

We would?

Nutmeg

the computer grammer is really annoying...especially when your main character's name is William, Will for short!!! and i have noticed that the grammer check does not like passive voice!

Stan2

I don't like passive voice either!