Changing language

Jay Mandal

Jay Mandal

Changing language - no, not text-messaging for once. Has anyone else noticed that 'whom' is almost the equivalent of 'an' e.g./i.e. 'whom I met' - to make it easier to say? Otherwise, whether grammatical or not, we say and write 'who'. Is 'whom' on its way out? Although I object to apostrophes being misused/omitted, I'm quite happy to see the back of 'whom'. How does everyone else feel?

MonkeyNuts

I've got to be honest, I won't be sorry to see the back of 'whom'. It was always one of those words I was never sure when to use. I do usually think it's sad when some words are phased out though. I was told off the other day for using the word actress; apparently we should now refer to a 'thespian' as an actor, their gender should be irrelevant. Naughty me for not being up with the times!

Jay Mandal

I can understand authors and poets being unisex, if that's the right word, but doesn't it get confusing? 'Actor required to play Cleopatra' sounds plain ambiguous.

Sparrow

Hardly anyone uses ‘whom’ correctly, note Dad’s Army theme song ‘Who do you think you are kidding Mr Hitler’ and an old guy is sitting in his armchair shouting ‘WHOM! WHOM!’ Wasn’t that at the end of a recent BBC programme about pendants in language? I’m a bit of a pedant myself, I definitely eat, shoot and leave, but I will admit to making this mistake.

josiehenley

um woops *slap wrists* that was me that did the Dad's Army theme tune, not Sue. Sorry Sue for hijacking your username, tut-tut

Carol

Have to agree with Josie about people not knowing when to use it correctly, which is probably why it isn't used much and sounds old-fashioned.
It won't be lost forever, and in a few years it will probably have a revival.

Jay Mandal

For Who the Bell Tolls. By Ernest Hemmingway. Get it?

Tessa Tangent

Nice point about how it sounds, Claudia.  I am aware that I should use it but get confused like everyone else and find myself practising sentences out loud to see how they come across.  Kind of "writing by feel" if you see what I mean.

Jay Mandal

Who is used where you should use 'I' or 'we'. In all other cases, use whom - apart from whose, which doesn't have an apostrophe.

Any other words on their last legs?

Tessa Tangent

For I The Bell Tolls?  For We The Bell Tolls?  Got it!

MonkeyNuts

I was taught a very basic rule n this:
who and whoever = subjects
whom and whomever = objects
I still get confused though! Ha-ha. 

Howard

A cardinal whom's name was Hume,
Preached gloom from the womb to the tomb,
Even Sir Alec Douglas Home,
Hated his whom-our-less tune,
And his bell which tolled of doom.
Boom! Boom!

(Sorry, feeling silly this morning! Too much whom-us for supper last night?)

Jay Mandal

Good one, Claudia! (Sorry, that was unintentional.) Yes, we tend to say 'they' or 'you', although 'you' can lead to confusion. And even 'we', judging from wot I just wrote.

Seagate

Though not unsympathetic, Jane, I'm wondering what you did with authoress and poetess. I really must object to my womenfolk disappearing like that. We need colour in our lives and even grey has many distinctive qualities.

Seagate

I do apologise. I meant Jay, not Jane.

Island Girl

I use whom when speaking but only in very selective company - must be that big old inferiority complex rearing its ugly head again - as I don't want to come across as uppity. I know I should be able to speak how I want to but I have this underlying need to be 'one of the gang'. I don't want my family (in particular) to think I'm doing a Hyacynth Bucket on them.
Monkeynuts says:
who and whoever = subjects
whom and whomever = objects
So where does whomsoever and whosoever come into the equation - if at all?

Jay Mandal

If used, whomsoever would be the 'object' e.g. "whomsoever it pleases" to which the answer might be "it pleases me" (not 'I').

Verica

I think it would be a shame to lose 'whom', when it is obviously needed, at times.  Also, 'one' reads better in written work than constantly repeated 'you' or I.  It should not be only the royal prerogative.  People seem to have stopped using 'which', too, and only use 'that' instead, which is a pity. 
                   

Stan2

I think 'whom' and 'one' (instead of me) can sound pretentious. Sometimes when I write 'whom', my spellcheck wants me to use 'whom'. Usually one ignores this suggestion, doesn't one? I too get confused about 'who' and 'whom'. Has Richard Bell written about this in WN?

Howard

Stan: Who/whom. The best guide for deciding which of these words to use is to substitute a personal pronoun in place of the word: if HE, SHE or THEY would fit, use who (nominative cae); if HIM, HER or THEM would fit, use whom (objective case). ('Write Right!' page 100.)

Island Girl

Didn't I just say I feared tht very reaction, Stan? Pretentious! Moi?

amboline

Another Peanuts quote: in one cartoon Lucy was writing out cards with the words "To whom it may concern, happy Valentine's Day." When Linus suggests that that's not a very personal greeting, Lucy objects that there are hundreds of people who may never even have seen a Valentine's card before. "Think about it, Linus," she says. "The world is full of 'whoms'." ;-)

So there is definitely a place for "whom"...