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Setting The Scene
This is the part I struggle with the most, and tend just to get on with the story. How much is too much or too little? Is a preference thing?
Advice please!
Advice please!
Comments
London was a fascinating, ever changing, ever enchanting city in ordinary times, but now it was in celebratory mood, it really showed its lively face. The narrow, winding, dusty streets were crammed with people of all ages and all professions: street vendors collided with and importuned the clerks and clerics who were rushing here and there clutching papers, books and leather pouches which might or might not contain valuables. Pickpockets eyed the pouches and wondered but only took a chance when the throng was thickest and their crime unlikely to be discovered. Children darted through the crowds, making the most of the confusion to steal a pie here, a piece of fruit there, or if they were really fortunate, something they could sell. The May sun shone on the aristocrats who were arriving for the ceremony, it sparked colours from spur and sword, dagger and jewels, as well as highlighting the buxom wenches busy plying their trade, making the most of the good feeling sweeping through the Londoners. A Coronation brought everyone out onto the streets, old and young, rich and poor and, if you were smart, there was a chance to leave being poor behind and become rich for a while, for many were free with their money in such celebratory times.
Londons tailors had worked far into the night to finish their commissions on time. Such a grand occasion meant every invited guest needed new clothes for it was a time to display wealth, rank and standing in court. Not that the tailors were complaining, the commissions had been many and rewarding, the long hours they and their apprentices had spent stitching had enriched them considerably.
Edward Woodville rode through the throng, one hand on the hilt of his fine sword, the other guiding the thoroughbred chestnut gelding he had chosen from his stable that morning. He was wearing a new jewelled doublet which had been delivered late the previous evening. He had examined it closely for any defect but the garment was perfect, despite the heavy workload his tailor had complained of. He had given the man an extra gold coin and noticed his eyes light up. It had its own reward, paying extra for something. The next time he ordered new clothes, he knew he would get the very best attention.
I connected the lively London with work, with tailors, with Edward in his brand new doublet and in doing that, gave an insight into his character at the same time, he wanted value for money, always! Does this help?
The idea for my novel is to have Newcastle as important as the characters, and all I ever do is describe buildings etc. Never occured to me to describe her character that I know and love.
Think about Newcastle people, are they different, how do they speak, what do they do, what do they think and feel about their city, what background do the buildings have, are they ancient, modern, in between, listed, unlisted? Write them in as your people move around, the doorways, the porticos, the arches, the narrow alleyways between them, that kind of thing. Focus on the real, the closed spaces, the open spaces, the flowers, the dirt. Whoops, getting carried away here!
But, not only the opening of my book, but the excerpt I used for my Sense of Place article in WN clearly put Joby in his environment. Take another look.
I will most definitely re-read your article. I think you touch on an important point. I did a good job of scene setting in chapter one, but it then seems to go out of the window!
It's easy to let the scene setting go, if you aren't careful. I remember someone circulating a crime novel in a postal workshop and could not work out what was wrong with it, until it dawned on me that the writer had forgotten the corpse was a person and that person was missing from the story. It can happen with background, too. Look at each chapter objectively, walk with your hero or heroine through the streets of Newcastle, let them see what you see and what you feel as they do so. An oppressive underpass which they have to negotiate, a light airy square with trees which enchants in the summer but is a plague of dropped wet leaves in Autumn and nodding empty branches in the winter, ice cold benches which no one in the right mind would sit on, so why is that person sitting on one ... it goes like that, if you encourage yourself to think that way.
I'd better shut up now before I take over this thread completely!!!!!!!!
I felt like editing it, so here goes.
London was a fascinating ever changing city in ordinary times, but now it was in celebratory mood. The narrow dusty streets were crammed with people of all ages and professions. Street vendors collided with clerks clutching papers and books. Pickpockets eyed the pouches and wondered about taking a chance. Children darted through the crowds, making the most of the confusion to steal a pie here or a piece of fruit. The May sun shone on the aristocrats who were arriving for the ceremony, reflecting of their colourful swords, dagger and jewels. Buxom wenches were busy plying their trade, making the most of the good feeling sweeping through the Londoners. A Coronation brought everyone out onto the streets, there was a chance to leave being poor behind and become rich for a while, for many were free with their money in such celebratory times.
Londons tailors had worked far into the night to finish their commissions on time. Such a grand occasion meant every invited guest needed new clothes for it was a time to display wealth, rank and standing in court. Not that the tailors were complaining, the commissions had been many and rewarding, the long hours they and their apprentices had spent stitching had enriched them considerably.
Edward Woodville rode through the throng, one hand on the hilt of his fine sword, the other guiding the thoroughbred chestnut gelding he had chosen from his stable that morning. He was wearing a new jewelled doublet which had been delivered late the previous evening. He had examined it closely for any defect but the garment was perfect, despite the heavy workload his tailor had complained of. He had given the man an extra gold coin and noticed his eyes light up. It had its own reward, paying extra for something. The next time he ordered new clothes, he knew he would get the very best attention.
Dorothy's example is a very good explanation.
And, the children at that time stole to sell as much as they stole to eat, and you took that out. Not a good idea ... remember the time I am writing about, 15th century, and put yourself in that time, in that place,in that cut throat society, then add in a few writer's quirks to make your writing different from anyone else's. Then, add the final element, the target market, in my case locals and tourists, not historians or academics of any kind!
When you've done all that, consider your end product ...
Thanks for kind comments, TBers!
One of her brothers is my Earl. It was, as far as I am concerned, the only reason he was executed, forget the 'treason' bit, it was Richard of Gloucester, later Richard III, who wanted all Woodvilles removed, because he hated them. Another brother was Sir Edward, hero of my Island book. For me, they are an important family. I'm having a website created to give people information on them, with the help of master website builder and TBer, Mike Coombes.
By the way , it's not the self-publisher that takes your money - because that's YOU (as in the author who is paying)
It's the printer who takes the money . :)
Point two: as I've said before, the reason I don't divulge my identity on this group is because I have never seen such hate and vitriol against publshed authors as on this group - tearing books apart on aeroplanes, constant snide remarks about successful writers (other than the dead ones, who are apparently more venerable), and so on.
Point three: so the self-publishers have become charities now? LOL! They've really got you brainwashed, haven't they, my dear?
Anyway, this thread isn't about why you shouldn't self-publish, or why I'm such a bitch... it's about setting the scene and a very important technical point of writing. I gave my advice as a published author, take it or leave it. It doesn't matter what genre a writer caters for, it's a fact that when confronted with a great big chunk of description on the first page, editors will just bin the ms.
So now I'll hand this back to the 'experts'....
point 1: few people know what London was like in the 15th century.
Point 2: this is not the start of the book. There is a decriptive action packed Island named loaded prologue, and as this is for Island people, that is the right way to go.
Point 3: I have beside me as I write this Boris Starling's book Vodka, which begins with a prologue and a chapter which describes Moscow, the regime and the people in great detail.
Point 4: like it or not, and you won't, I am sure of that, the editor of a publishing house is coming to the Island soon to see me, to discuss in greater detail the new imprint of which I will be the major part. It begins with the Duke's book which also has to set 15th century life and places before the public.
Point 5: Malcolm Welshman, a very successful published writer, James Barrington, a very successful published writer, for a start, have had nothing but praise, support and encouragement from TBers. Genuine talent by genuine people is applauded by us. Fake talent and bad writing is not.
and no i was not just giving support...i truly believe that was a good descriptive peice that set the scene of 15th century london perfectly...now maybe you don't like descriptive writing...that's your choice...we all have our own opinions as to what is good writing or not...and it would be nice if you didn't beat down anyone who doesn't write what you like. And what is so wrong with self publishing. Christopher Paolini's parents published his book and then a big publisher contacted him and asked to publish his book!
I have had such STUPID comments from agents, not only those I have approached, but heard from other published writers too, that I have no time for their opinions. What do you do, for example, when they say something is publishable, worthwhile, take you on and then say no it isn't going to sell, sorry???? What about the one who wanted me to alter the end of the Duke's book 'because it's too sad, he dies!' well, yes, it is recorded history, you know ... or the one who said they only take fiction, as if an autobiography of someone dead for over 500 years is actual fact ... or the one who wanted to read it and then told me they don't touch historical fiction ... Candy, if you choose to rely on the word of your agent only, I feel sorry for you and your future career.
Sensitivity doesn't come into it. If it did, people on here would not go to YWO and other critique sites.
Boris Starling's book was published 3 years ago. Not quite as far back as Williamson.
Q and A? You baxe your opinion of us on that? Candy, I have to ask, been dying to for an age, why the hell do you come on here? You don't like any of us, you don't join in anything that is half way fun, but do you spend an inordinate amount of time criticising rather than being friendly. Is this you, your alter ego, or what?
PS: I have been a published writer for nearly 30 years. I have 12 novels to my (different) names. The comments on here are not support, but people's honest opinions. That counts more than any support.
taken from: http://www.englishbiz.co.uk/mainguides/describe.htm
and why do you find it so easy to put down other people. You act so high and mighty as an apparently "published" author. even if i knew what you wrote i wouldn't read it because your attitude stinks. Come on. This site is meant for published and unpublished authors to discuss writing and just have a good time. Not to criticise us for what we write. as i have already said we all have different tastes...so would you stop writing this nonsense.
I didn't say I had problems with publishers. I said I had problems with the scatty opinions of agents. Read the post properly! I also said it was other people's comments and experiences as well as my own!
I didn't say your current career, I said your future career. Agents do not appear to know their markets any more.
I have had 12 novels published. Does that tell you I have problems with publishers? I think not! The company currently interested in my series is one who has published my books already. He knows me and is enthusiastic about my work and my experience. Does that sound as if I have problems with publishers? I think not!
When Bodley Head paid me a development fee for my teen novel, I rewrote it according to their needs and they took it. Does that indicate an attitude? I think not.
I have been an editor for nearly 14 years, Candy. I have a pretty good idea of what's right and what isn't. My 'attitude' comes from a long career in writing, on both sides. I think a (close on) 30 year writing career makes me a professional. It does in most people's eyes anyway. How many books have you had published? Were they only here or in the States as well, as mine are? Have you worked long distance with the senior editor of a leading publishing house in New York, as I have?
Please read posts carefully before commenting on them, and you won't make errors in your responses.
Still waiting for an answer as to why you bother to come here, BTW
Candy, I know a member was interested in taking him up on the Q&A session, not sure if it was arranged or not. And I know he is doing a number of books at the moment, so it may be sometime before we see him again.
If you are doing so well Candy, and you consider the rest of us so objectionable, I can only assume you have masochistic tendencies as you keep coming back.
Anyway, my best friend's Uncle's brother in law, has a friend who's Aunt knows a man on her street who once talked to a woman who had a discussion with her mother's next door neighbour about "setting the scene", editing, AND publishing. So therefore I do not feel the need to comment further on this thread. (smug smiley)