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beginning

edited July 2008 in - Writing Problems
I am struggling with making the beginning of my novel interesting and eye catching. I am also wandering whether i should change it to first person or just change who's point of view the reader sees everything from.
These are the options that i thought about last night
Write it in third person as it now.
Write it in first person from my main character's viewpoint or from a neutral character's viewpoint
Perhaps even start it with someone telling their children the story of...

any ideas?

i hope this makes sense.

Comments

  • Opening is very important.
    Loved Hatters Castle. Started with a light warm breeze wandering about. The book finished with a light warm breeze, having touched Brodie's castle, chilling, and moving on.
    One can learn a lot from the experts.

    I think a book written in the first person limits what others think and do because how do know what others are thinking.
  • Difficult without knowing more. Why don't you try doing a page or two each way and see if you prefer one viewpoint better.
  • narration is not always a good idea, this telling a story to someone else often tips you into a Tell Not Show situation. First person is vivid and compelling, but limiting. Third person can be more wide ranging. Try writing both ways, as Carol says. I have gone back and altered a book, rewritten it as first person to make it more striking and it has worked, but needed to try it the other way first.
  • Hi Jemma
    I agree with Carol, it's difficult to say without knowing more but the main thing is making it attention grabbing.

    Depending on the genre will also affect the start. If it's action, for example, make sure the reader understands that from the outset. I think the crucial thing is to make sure it's a moment of change whatever genre it might be.

    And as Dorothy says, Show don't tell - get the reader involved from line one. Tell tends to keep a reader at a distance.

    Good luck.

    Beginnings - always a right pain in the bum to get right. Part of me would also recommend you just get on and write it and then come back when it's time to edit and revise. We can all fall into the trap of tweaking and revising and fine tuning our beginnings and not get the rest written.
  • thanks all...
    tracy have you been reading Dwight V Swain's book Techniques of the Selling Writer? It was given to me by a friend and read a tiny bit on the chapter about Beginning and that was the main point, change. But i was too tired to read much more!
    I will start the edit tonight and try and work a bit on the beginning. Last night i did write out a bit of a plan that is better than what i had so perhaps it will work better.
    Oh, its a fantasy but starts in a small village in the north of England, the first scene is in a pub. I'm thinking of setting the ordinary scene of a pub and then the change comes in...it should work, hopefully. But that's for tonight.
  • Hi Jemma

    No I haven't read that particular book. My main experience has been trying it the hard way, I'm currently revising my historical fantasy which has gone through several changes to the start and has changed quite radically which is also why I'd recommend getting most of your book written.
    But change is crucial - try not to take too long to hook the reader. Get a cracking first line or two and within the next few paragraphs indicate where the story is going. Try not to hang around too much. You can certainly keep any mystery and drop loads of clues which would also intrigue.
    Basically, I'd say think - big, fat juicy plot worm that hooks the reader from the outset so they have to keep reading because they need to know what's going to happen.

    Wishing you well with the writing tonight.

    Here's a little morale booster - as an agent said to me, a significant part of the author's life is revision, revision, revision. So, take your time and know that if it keeps changing you most certainly aren't alone. If I hadn't lost track of how many revisions I'd done I'd let you know. ;-)
  • edited July 2008
    '"... whether to swallow it or spit it out." There was a stunned silence.'

    Excerpt from 'The Last Laugh'.

    What are they talking about? (Keep it clean.)
  • I hate to think. I was searching Photobucket the other day for "swallow" (wanted a picture of a swallow (the bird) to illustrate a blog entry) and I got a lot more than I bargained for!

    Wine tasting?
  • Apart from the obvious, (but you said to keep it clean Jay) could they be doing a spot of wine tasting?
  • Oops!!!!! Didn't read your last bit ( until just now ) HM. :rolleyes:
  • Great minds ... :)
  • Nope. Read what I've said very carefully! :-)
  • Pride
  • the laugh?
  • Have you thought of starting at the top, Jemma? Starting with dialogue, that is. I am now convinced that the reader is gripped more by dialogue than by any other form of writing, as long as there is tension. (Not necessarily hurling brickbats at each other.)
    Take 'Pride and Prejudice'.
    http://www.online-literature.com/austen/prideprejudice/1/
    Page one draws the reader in rather effectively, don't you think? And a fair bit of exposition and characterisation can be included too.
    So situations like the front door opening, breakfast table announcements, boss summoning employee. All ripe for exploitation. When you think about it, if your opening gambit is less dramatic than one of these, you may not be starting your story in the right place.
  • Is it truth?
  • Isn't P&P's intro stream of conciousness? More authorial voice than any of the characters speaking.

    My personal preference is nineteen eight four 'and the clocks struck thirteen'. You know you are dealing with something extraordinary.
  • Here's my first few sentences of my novel:

    The dark October night air smells of dampness and mildew. No flicker of light breaks through the moonless night. No brightness in the choking air. Rain hangs suspended in the heavy stillness. My footsteps crunched through the frozen ice and mud. No sound disturbs the gnarled and twisted branches of the leafless trees. There is almost no sound, only a ghost, and a wisp of a sob on the breeze. A murmur grows louder; someone is scrabbling against metal, someone struggling to breathe. (bound, copyright feona bowey - so don't think about it lol!)

    Criticise at will! What I am going for is the build up of a creepy/gothic atmosphere to build up suspense and tension. By the end of the chapter there will be a murder.

    Actually, I think that semi-colon is wrong . . .
  • nice stirling.
    Dwight, thanks. I would always start my essays at school with someone talking if it was that type of essay. I was also told its good to start with dialog and i do prefer it, it gets the reader right into it. anyway I better go and do some writing. Its already 22:30!
    Good night all
    thanks for all the help.
    keep the comments coming
  • Do many novels start with dialogue?
  • I don't know if P&P is authorial stream of consciousness, Stirling, but it sure is dialogue. The dialogue is a full chapter long with five lines of narrative introduction and a final five lines of narrative drawing the author's conclusion. It is difficult to see how Jane Austen could have begun this story better. Every line of the dialogue stands the test of holding tension for the reader. Mr Bennet even knows how to add to the tension by remaining silent, because he knows that that irritates his wife and he does it on purpose. And the author has provided and lit the blue touch paper which ignites the rest of the plot, since Mrs Bennet will brook no resistance to her determination to marry her daughters well, while her indolent husband will do nothing to stop her machinations. All this in chapter one. Through dialogue. The perfect way of showing, not telling.
    But I agree with Tracy. I wonder how many rewrites JA did before she got it word perfect like this. I hope you will consider a dialogue opening for your novel as one of your options.
  • Sorry, Stirling. Sorry, Jemma. I got confused over who I was talking to.
  • Stirling, shouldn't it be: 'My footsteps crunch'?
  • Yes, you are right Jay it should actually be 'my footsteps crunch through the ice and mud'.

    Dwight, I looked back at the book. The 'universal truth' line is narration (more Austen speaking than anything else in her ironic tone!). Now in the BBC drama it was dialogue, but not in the novel. The novel contains two sentences of narration, then the dialogue begins with Mrs Bennet.

    I'm actually struggling to find a novel that begins with dialogue. I think I'll take a look in Waterstones later (probably get kicked out too!).
  • Morning Stirling,

    [quote=Stirling]Criticise at will! What I am going for is the build up of a creepy/gothic atmosphere to build up suspense and tension.[/quote]

    May I be so bold as to praise your idea yet suggest my opinion for improvement of impact?

    These [ ] brackets denote omitting your words, these { } denote suggested replacement words.

    The dark October night [air smells of] {oozes} dampness and mildew. No [flicker] {glimmer} of light [breaks through] {penetrates} the moonless {hour} [night. No brightness in] {smothered by} the choking air. Rain [hangs] suspended in the heavy stillness. My footsteps crunch[ed through] the frozen ice and mud[. No sound] disturb[s]{ing deliberation of} the gnarled and twisted branches of the [leafless] {naked} trees. [There is almost no sound, only] a ghost, [and a] wisp of a sob on the breeze. A murmur grows louder; [someone is] scrabbling against metal, someone struggling to breathe.

    Thus it reads:-

    The dark October night oozes dampness and mildew. No glimmer of light penetrates the moonless hour, smothered by the choking air. Rain, suspended in the heavy stillness. My footsteps crunch the frozen ice and mud, disturbing deliberation of the gnarled and twisted branches of the naked trees. A ghost, wisp of a sob on the breeze. A murmur grows louder. Scrabbling against metal. Someone, struggling to breathe!

    Obviously you will prefer your own style of word. Hopefully the shortened, staccato, pace helps paint the scene you require.

    Good luck, it will be interesting to read your final edit.
  • edited July 2008
    Wow. You're good!
  • Well here is what I managed to write last night. It is still a bit rough and any comments, etc, would be appreciated.

    The pub patrons were chatting cheerfully to each other when Anna walked in on her usual Saturday shift. A few people looked up and waved at her during their conversations of the previous day’s farming successes.
    “Hey Anna. You’re a bit late this morning. But don’t worry I got on fine without you,” A tall, dark-haired youth said.
    “Oh, hi Tom. Yeah, my alarm didn’t go off. Don’t know why.”
    Anna quickly tied up her unruly auburn hair as, Lizzy, the owner bounced in from her office.
    “Anna! Was there a traffic jam or something?” she asked with a quirky smile.
    “Unlikely. Just a dumb alarm.”
    “Right. Well Jimmy would like a pint and some breakfast. Hop to it.”
    “Yes ma’am!” Anna saluted, laughing.
    “Uh, excuse me.”
    Anna turned on the spot and found herself staring into the most striking blue eyes she’d ever seen. Stepping back, she surveyed the young man in front of her.
    “How can I help you sir?” Anna asked, wandering if he was even old enough to be called sir.
    “I’m looking for a Anna Parker. I was told I could find her here.” The young man brushed his hand through his straw-coloured hair absently.
    “You’ve found her. Again, how can I help you?” Anna asked, puzzled. Why was a stranger asking for her?
    “Just this,” he leant in closer and whispered, “Be at Finigan’s house at noon.” He turned and left without waiting for her reply.
    “Wait! Why?”
    “Did I hear that right? Did he say Finigan?” Tom asked.
    “Yeah.”
    “You do know what Finigan is, right?”
    “Of course I do!”
    “Then you will forget what that boy said. Finigan is dangerous.”
    “You don’t think I know that? I-,”
    “When you two have stopped bickering, there are customers to serve!” Lizzy snapped from behind them.
    Anna nodded and promptly set about readying Jimmy’s breakfast. But she couldn’t get those eyes out of her head. They were so blue! And he must have been about seventeen, Tom and her age. What was he doing here? No one ever came here for holiday. Besides, school started tomorrow. There had to be a good reason and Anna was going to find out. In three hour’s time when she cashed up she would go to the old man’s house.
  • Stirling, I began my novel Sundancer with the words
    "Where's the damned hotel?"
    First person present book, very difficult to write - when I tried marketing it with Transworld, it came back with the comment 'you grab the reader by the throat and drag them into the story' but it was too wild for them. Blue Moon published it in the end.
    It never hurts to start with dialogue if you can, it snatches people and makes them read on.
  • I think dialogue is a tricky thing to start with and I'm not keen unless we know exactly who's talking. Some things I read on YWO, for example, would start with a line of dialogue and you didn't know if it was male or female, let alone anything else about the character, age, dialect, country of origin.
    First person can, I think, be different because in essence, the narrative is dialogue, or certainly the way the person thinks and speaks. A good first person narrative really gets us inside the character and the same I think should go for dialogue. Good dialogue, well-written can show us much more about a character than resorting to telling us about them.
    I certainly think it's better to involve some dialogue as soon as you can, rather than have paragraphs of exposition, because as Dorothy says it snatches people, involves them in the story rather than keeping them at a distance.

    Jemma - I think you should be wary of posting extracts too soon because it's still a work in progress. Get it written first because although this isn't a critquing site, if people say too many different things or are too critical, it can become too easy to be disheartened. One of the things I've often heard is that as writers we shouldn't show our literary baby to others until it's at least a finished first draft and I think that's good advice. The more you write, the more you'll see things that need to be fixed and I would, if I was the betting kind, put a huge amount of money on your beginning changing significantly and more than once.

    If you really have the need to hear any comments, tread warily and trust your instincts too. It's your book and it's your voice you need to develop. The first draft will never be the finished draft.

    Best of luck and happy writing.
    Tracy :)
  • Trust Dorothy to prove me wrong! lol

    I agree with the need for dialogue, a reader needs a pair of eyes to see the world through. Pages of exposition irritates me. Dialogue quickly follows what I post.
    Spot on about dialogue Tracy!
  • go with what the gut says every time, though, that is the only way to write.

    Just picked up my 'read at lunch time' book (been reading it for something like six months now, I rarely go to lunch alone)
    The Drumbeat of Jimmy Sands by Murray Davies.
    "What's this? An army funeral? Full military honours."
  • it is the start of my 2nd or third edit. i think 3rd now. And i know it needs a lot of work etc...and i appreciate all the help.
  • Hi Jemma

    Can I ask? Is the the second or third edit of just this opening scene?
    How much of the rest of the story have you written?

    If you really, really feel the need for input on these opening lines, I'll reluctantly make a comment but only if you really, really want some feedback at this stage. ( Do you think that's enough reallys? ) And so long as you remember that it is only you who knows where your story is going at this early stage and if I give an opinion it's only my personal opinion and some might say I talk out of my bum. ;)
  • i understand tracy. I have written two drafts of the full story already and this is the third draft of the whole story that i am starting. I wouldn't want you to reluctantly give an opinion. You don't have to.
  • Ah, now I know you've written the whole story I feel happier to make a comment if you'd like me to. I can post properly or whisper if you'd like some feedback.
  • thank you all for your whispered comments, they have been very helpful. Keep them coming! ;)
    I will definately be thinking things over tonight.
  • Whatever you do, don't start with a long prologue, most publishers hate them. P&P doesn't actually start with dialogue - there's a little bit of narrative first. And it certainly is not stream of consciousness! Is that not what Virginia Woolfe did? Don't know if I spelt her surname correctly, but who cares, I can't stand her crap.

    Stirling, I think you're doing a pretty good job here, although I think you have a tendency to overwrite a little bit, and this comes over to me as feeling a bit agonised over. Just tell the story, and keep it as simple and visual and easy to read as you can.
  • thanks candy...I originally had a prologue but was told by an author friend of mine that as an unknown writer the publishers would not like it...so it was quite easy to move it to the second chapter..it made more sense there...
  • Thought I recognised it!
  • Candy wrote: 'you have a tendency to overwrite'. That's exactly what two agents said to me. It seems that the rule is, the more simple the writing is, the better. But it's not easy to do.:(
  • A lot of 'simple writing' comes from stripping out phrases you are particularly proud of, they seem to be the ones which are overwritten, generally known as purple prose.
    When my partner vetted my book before we printed it, he told me to take out the 'fancy' words, change carricks for ships, change mazer for goblet or cup. 'Don't show off; he told me. 'Just because you know it and think that way, doesn't mean everyone else knows. KISS - Keep It Simple, Stupid!' (We use that throughout our business dealings, when we refer to it as KIFS, having found customers are pretty stupid at times.)
    You can write relatively simply and keep the story moving, it just means stripping out a lot of unnecessary words. When you revise your book/story/article, make sure you come to it with fresh eyes, having put it away for a month or more.
    Try the One Word Challenge every month. Writing a piece in 200 words makes you evaluate every word you put down. It's very good practice and costs nothing but your time.
  • Agree, it is very good at making you look at getting the important stuff over without overdoing the wordage.
  • edited July 2008
    However Gothic has its own syntax/grammar. It is all about excess. Its just a convention of that genre. Some people would call God Of Small Things as overwritten, but I think (and so did my tutor) it was beautiful and very evocative.
  • [quote=Stirling]However Gothic has its own syntax/grammar. It is all about excess. Its just a convention of that genre. Some people would call God Of Small Things as overwritten, but I think (and so did my tutor) it was beautiful and very evocative. [/quote]
    You are right there Stirling, I also find that dialogue is quite minimal compared to other genres (which is fine with me, I don't actually like dialogue, especially if it is first person narrative).
  • What kind of Gothic are you referring to, Stirling?
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