Vampires

Stirling

http://entertainment.timesonline.co.uk/tol/arts_and_entertainment/books/article5481184.ece

Neph

Both Hamilton and Meyer have a lot to answer for, although in Hamiltons defence some of her vampires are pure evil (The stories weren't half bad until she turned into a complete Mary Sue).

Stirling

My sister is reading Twilight at the moment - but I'm letting her off (she doesn't read much fiction and she's enjoying this.)

Vegetarian vampires, I ask you!

I think I may buy this new edition of Dracula though.

Carol

The writer of the article obviously shares your view Neph. :)

Neph

Oh god I took Hollie to see Twilight (against my better judgement, I hasten to add). It is possibly the worst vampire film ever. Glittering vegetarian vampires - I ask you what is the world coming to?

I've just started Let the Right one in and have to say I'm liking it a lot. Although my brain isn't working as it should.

Wednesday I think I might have to invest in something nasty.

Carol

Watch out Waterstones!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Randomguy

I'm probably missing the point of the title of this film, but in the adverts for the films the vampires seemed to be wandering around in the day... What was that about then?

Neph

RG take everything you know about vampire lore, throw it away, get a young androgenous (yet not at all attractive) male. cover him in white makeup, then sprinkle on handfuls of glitter and sit him out in the full sun - please note he will not combust - he will merely sparkle. If you are a teenage girl you will then forget any ambition other than to be with aforementioned male (heaven only knows why) happily clear up after him (setting equal rights back at least three decades - of course you could take into account how old he actually is and not the sappy 17 year old he pretends to be, just to make yourself feel better), treat him with far more respect than he deserves, probably just because he can climb a tree really fast, with you on his back and is fairly good at biology, oh and is sometimes useful if a car is about to cause you certain death. Under no circumstances are you to play baseball with him when it thunders.

I'm sorry I tried to read the book, got as far as page two and wanted to boil my head (or Meyer's head - at one point wasn't fussy which). Went to see the film and was ready to gouge my eyes out with that annoying little plastic thing they give you to stir sugar into your coffee, which is of course too small and not long enough so you burn your fingers and the sugar still settles at the bottom, but is still more pleasureable than this pile of tosh.

Of course you then have to take into consideration that (like Hamilton's Anita Blake books) this is all merely a Mary Sue fantasy (for those of you who need this explained, it is used in fanfiction when it is obviously the writer who is getting it on, or off with leading male, usually handsome and well endowed, oh and very talented). If either of them had actually bothered to fill their characters out into anything other than two dimentional (and trust me that is a compliment, one and a half would be more accurate) and possibly studied grammar, punctuation and spelling (english, not american please) they might actually have a decent series that people who love a good vampire romp would actually like.



If, by the time you get to this point, you are still unsure, I HATED THIS BOOK AND THE FILM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Stirling

Don't worry Neph, you're not the only one (I've seen discussion after discussion on AW).

Randomguy

Well, Neph, sounds as though you have the self flagellation thing down to a fine art ;)

Pity really when they mess with the Vampire rule book like this. I think the one thing that defines a really "good" bad guy is their limitations. Take that away and all you have is just another killer who is a bit stronger and a bit faster and likes to drink blood...

Give me the paranoia of Ultraviolet (the TV series not the film) any day... Although I did watch Buffy a few times, but I never inhaled.

MorbidMaiden

Twilight looks absolutly dreadfull. The book and the film. Someone at Uni asked me when I was going to pop to the cinema and see it...which started a rant about the total lack of originality it has, etc, etc.

A friend passed me 'Let the right one in.' Its good. Enough to keep me picking it up when I'm not reading Anne Sexton, Manga (new obsession) or books on Iceland (novel research). The translation is a bit botched in some areas though and there are cliches which make you howl.

Neph

RG I loved Ultraviolet, often wish there had been more of them made. It was sinister without the cliche.

Hubby bought me the box set of Buffy for my birthday last year, didn't realise until I watched a batch in close succession just how whiney that girl was!!!

As far as vampire films go, I still think one of my favorites is 'The Lost Boys'. Although Kefier Sutherlands teeth were all wrong.

Tracy

NC - just seen this thread and I couldn't agree more with your rant. I forced myself to read the whole book and will quite happily refuse to read any more. Really couldn't face the film.
And I wish they'd stop saying they are vegetarian vampires because they're not - they go and drink animal blood at weekends!!

Neph

It was a bit of a rant wasn't it :blushes:

Tracy

And Lost Boys - a favourite of mine back in the day. Now there were some sexy vampires but not Keifer so much.

Neph

Aww I have a soft spot for Keifer.

I think it is about time we had a damn good nasty vampire, and when I get five minutes I will finish mine off properly.

Tracy

I love a good rant too. ;)

All my friends were into Keifer, I was more into the dark haired one who didn't say much.

MorbidMaiden

Interview with the Vampire - come on! Knocks the socks off Lost Boys.

lexia

Don't know why I am on this thread - nothing at all about any vampires interests me ! hehe Come on then someone ....enlighten me on what I am missing !

Stirling

The darkness within us.

lexia

Ah...................

Neph

MM it would if it wasn't for that simpering moron Brad Pitt. I just don't like him in anything. Lestat is possibly my favorite vampire, 'The Vampire Lestat' still being one of my favorite books.

Tessadragon

oh for crying out loud, you hypocrites. I'm seeing Twilight for the second time today and thank goodness i stopped giving a toss what other writers say about the stories. It's a romance in the fantasy style, about a vampire falling in love with a human, it's about innocence and growing up.
Stephenie Meyer is a credible writer, she actually studied English literature and she knows how to write. Stop being bitter that she had a good idea and that the movie industry recognised it.

Stirling

Am I bitter. I don't feel bitter. My research interest is Gothic; I write Gothic. This ain't Gothic so it should stop pretending to be so.

There are some people who do care that a literary genre is being waterdown. There's not even any eroticism for God sake. The vampire is supposed to be a symbol of a threat from the outside (Dracula being a threat from Eastern Europe). In the eighties the threat was from HIV which was reflected by the idea of diseased/contaminated blood (Rabies was a particular fear at the time.)

I would have thought someone with an English Literature degree would demonstrate a deeper understanding of these ideas.

Oh yes, as far I can see there is little difference between this and Buffy. Although Buffy was no Mary Sue . . .

Tessadragon

She's taking a new look at an old idea and you're all whining that she's doing it wrong because she's not using the old ideas, thus she's not following YOUR rules. That is being bitter.
When someone studies for a degree, on collecting their diploma they don't swear allegiance to staying glued to the old ideas.

Stirling

There are conventions - and she should know them!

If you are REALLY interested in Gothic check out

http://www.gothic.stir.ac.uk/

I don't really care if she is a bestseller or not. I remember a few months ago Breaking Dawn went head-to-head with Brisingr. Breaking Dawn got trampled by Paolini.

Glennis is asking for papers for the Global Gothic Symposium in December. I would like to submit; but too frightened that I'll sound like an Undergraduate. Should I go for it?

Tracy

Hi TessaD - not trying to start an argument but I went to a talk by a well-respected agent, with many years of children's publishing under her belt, and she was very critical of Meyer's writing and there's also another agent website where she is very critical about both the writing and the themes.

I don't have a problem with the vampire attraction - totally get it. I don't have a problem with the whole teenage angst thing. I do have an issue with a subservient girl allowing herself to live under the threat of a violent boyfriend and risk lying to the ones she loves in order to be with him and risk being killed.

I also don't have an issue with walking in sunlight, glittery skin etc - that's all fine. Vampires have been done to death and on the whole there is very little originality brought to the genre and publishers and agents are sick of being inundated with vampire themed stories.

I certainly don't feel like I'm being a hypocrite and I certainly never feel bitter about any writer having success, although the celebrity thing can be annoying at times unless they write the books themselves and have talent.

But I have to say on this score with Twilight (although I haven't read the rest of the series) I am in the camp of not being impressed with the underlying message, a message that has been discussed by arts correspondents et al.

But yet again, it's a good job we don't all like the same things. I've had this discussion with Stirling about Eragon. It did absolutely nothing for me and needed a bloody good edit, but hey good luck to Paolini, I don't resent him his popularity.

Neph

[quote=Tracy]
I don't have a problem with the vampire attraction - totally get it. I don't have a problem with the whole teenage angst thing. I do have an issue with a subservient girl allowing herself to live under the threat of a violent boyfriend and risk lying to the ones she loves in order to be with him and risk being killed.[/quote]

I agree with this 110%. I can also imagine that as they seem to be the in thing at the moment agents must be so tired of them, considering how many are already out there (although there is a definate lack of 'proper' vampire horror).

[quote=Tessadragon]oh for crying out loud, you hypocrites. I'm seeing Twilight for the second time today and thank goodness i stopped giving a toss what other writers say about the stories. It's a romance in the fantasy style, about a vampire falling in love with a human, it's about innocence and growing up.
Stephenie Meyer is a credible writer, she actually studied English literature and she knows how to write. Stop being bitter that she had a good idea and that the movie industry recognised it. [/quote]

Ok I really object to being called a hypocrite, everyone who knows me knows my stance on vampires, trust me I've whined enough about them recently. You cannot take something that is so set in mythology and just throw everything out of the window, I'm all for new ideas but they need to be based in mythos for them to be believable. Nothing happens in the film, well except for the last ten minutes, just wish the bonfire had been bigger.

I don't care if the woman has ten degrees, in my opinon she cannot write for toffee. I have read better fan fiction.

Stirling to be fair Buffy is far better, at least her vampires have the decency to combust in sunlight, and Spike was an out and out nasty vamp until they stuck a chip in his head (by which time I was getting a little bored with the whole thing). Angel I just let off because its David Boreanez (yea I can be that shallow). ;)

I actually have come to the conclusion that on the whole women (and yes I am one, as Carol can confirm - I even wear skirts) cannot write convincing vampire horror (well the current batch anyway) most of them seem to think that they need a strong female who can go out and kick ass, and then swoon at the sight of fangs. Anne Rice is about the only one, Lestat is a wonderful character and so is Louis in his own painful way, and I think the vampire chronicles only work so well because there is a lack of females.

Carol

Stirling- go for it. You may be surprised at the response you can get. Nothing ventured, nothing gained.
Neph, is one who supports traditional blood thirsty vampires- nothing wrong with that. Nothing wrong with changing things either.
I think Meyers is one of those writers you either love or hate, and there just doesn't seem to be a half-way house.
:)

Stirling

"Neph, is one who supports traditional blood thirsty vampires."

Count me in that camp too!

Thanks Carol I'll give it a go. Maybe I should write a paper on the Hollywood vampire?

Neph

Of course in that camp we don't go out at night without garlic, holy water, a crucifix and a good sharp stake!!!!!! (just covering all bases, one of them should work)

Oh and Stirling nothing ventured etc etc!

Carol

Stirling did you see that piece done in the BBC Magazine pages on the subject.
The link was posted on Talkback last week.

Stirling

Damn missed it! I'll have a look.

You know, when Dracula was first published a number of young ladies would leave their windows open just in case . . .

Carol

:D

caro

I love the gothic bit in vampire stories, I think that's what makes them sexy and exciting. But I can see why writers try to change things a little and I don't think it's a big problem if it's done well. I read Twilight and thought it was pretty good, although I did think the ending was a bit flat.

Stirling

I just got confused about a vampire novel written by an author who hates horror - go figure!

My sister is about 120 pages from the end and is saying the plot seems to have gone walk abouts! Each to their own I love Eragon; Tracey doesn't (though it does need an edit!)

One thing that concerns me is that Meyer has applied her Mormon morals on her characters. I also wonder how attending a Mormon University how that would affect the texts you would have studied. The academic concensus is that it's more repressed wish fulfilment on the part of the author than any thing else.

Question: why would a vampire drink animal blood? Wouldn't that be like giving a human a transfusion of pig's blood?

Question 2: With all these animal carcasses drained of blood lying around; why has no-one grown suspicious?

Neph

Answer 1: Take for example Louis in Interview with the Vampire, for a while he drinks rats blood, which can sustain him but is not as good for him as human blood (which makes sense in a way).

Answer 2: The locals are obviously stupid.

Carol

Answer 2: Perhaps they've got an arrangement with a dodgy butcher, who doesn't ask questions about the bloodless carcasses!

caro

I didn't really think that the writer's Morman values were pushed a lot in Twilight, except that there was no sex. But that helped create a lot of UST between the characters so it wasn't a problem, at least not for me. As I said in my last message I enjoyed it, and I don't really care what the academics say about a book. Sometimes I think they're just failed writers with a grudge.

Stirling

Glennis Byron (a lecturer of mine) is a world authority on Gothic with 11 books published. As a writer and academic I care greatly about Gothic and the way it's being watered down.

I would love to hear what the feminist Gothic academics have to say about Twilight. I will have to have a discussion with Marilyn.

Carol

Do let us know the general view.

Stirling

I will!

caro

Has your tutor actually written vampire fiction, Stirling? I did a google on her name but nothing comes up. I think the problem with academics is that they don't read a book the way a normal reader does. For me the most important thing is whether I enjoyed a book or not.

Stirling

You should come and listen to her lectures, she would blow you away. She also runs our Gothic reading group - and yes she reads a book the same way as the rest of us. She's a big HP fan.

I don't know about fiction but type in Glennis Byron into amazon and it will pull up her non-fiction. Academics aren't the stuffy people they are portrayed to be you know - probably some of the most fun loving people I've ever met.

http://www.iga.stir.ac.uk/show_member.php?id=7

Don't know how you didn't find anything, I found 14,100 hits.

Just discovered a new hobby - googling tutors!

caro

Hello Stirling, I did find quite a lot of of stuff written by her, but not fiction which was what I was referring to. I know that all academics aren't stuffy, I met quite a few fun loving ones when I was at university. I wish someone near to me would start a gothic group as it sounds really interesting. What kind of things do you read?

goodsuspect

I did a gothic module during my degree - really enjoyed it.

Stirling

There is a modern gothic one in year 3 I think.

Let me think:

Let the Right One In - Lindquivist
Rant - Palachnuik
Monster Love
The Road - McCarthy

There are others where the names escape me.

It always interests me why there seems to this difference between mainstream writers and academic writers. I love both as much as each other; the best lessons I received in writing have come from studying literary theory.