Advice Needed

casey

I sent a query letter to an agent who doesn't accept unsolicited submissions. In his reply he asks for synopsis and 50 pages of ms. No problem. He also asks me to let him know which publishers so far have seen any part of my work. My initial reaction is that I can't see how sending my long list of rejections can enhance my chances of increasing his interesst in representing me. However, if I ignore his request, (impolite to say the least) will he assume that publishers who have seen the work are too numerous to mention?
I'm in a quandry. What would you do?

Carol

Well an agent will want to know what publishers have seen it so he knows who he could offer it to having not seen it before.
I would emphasise that since the submissions to x,x and x publishers the manuscript has had more work done to improve it.
Publishers do reject potentially good books, because it may not have been what they were looking for at the time you submitted, so don't look on their rejections as a sign it is no good.

flyingtart

Wot Carol said.

Lou Treleaven

That's a good idea, Carol. I too would be mortified if I had to own up to how many submissions I've had rejected!

casey

Luckily most of my rejections have come from agents. I've only sent to a handful of publishers. He only asks about publishers, not agents, so I can name them, together with the full ms request from Robert Hale, and the mention by UKAuthors that my competition entry was notable for potential.
What do you think?

Phots Moll

Yes, mention any good feedback along with the rejections and only tell him about publisher's rejects if that's all you've been asked for.

I can see why you're not keen to give this info, but it doesn't seem unreasonable for the agent to ask. If it's already been rejected by the only people he'd consider showing it to, then there'd be no point in him offering to represent you.

Dwight

You've made a break through by enticing this agent to ask for your submission, Casey. Well done, it must have been an effective query letter.

Yes, limit your info to publishers who have seen your work, and as Carol says, mention the work you've done since, even itemising the improvements you've made to prove it without going over the top. Your covering letter will of course state why you want this agent to represent you, perhaps with reference to a book you liked which they represented for another author. A bit of homework required here. This goes down very well, apparently.

Good luck.

Carol

Yes, list the positives Casey. It's good that it has only been seen by a few publishers as it will give the agent more options if they take you on.
Good luck.

LeeH

Nowt wrong with rejections. Here's a list of successful books that got rejected before finally finsing a home.

War of the Worlds: H.G Wells, The time Machine was also rejected.

Animal Farm: George Orwell.

Fahrenheit 451: Ray Bradbury.

Dune: Frank Herbert. 23 Rejections.

Carrie: Stephen King. 30 rejections!

Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone: J.K Rowling was rejected 12 times before Bloombury took it on.

I'd list the places you've tried, it'll make the agent's job easier and they'll like that, as time is money and if you ain't earning, neither are they.

ceka

One of the holiday visitors where I used to live turned out to be one of the publishers who'd turned JKR down - I had to ask: how do you feel about that now? He said - you win some, you lose some
To the tune of (then) Books 1 2 and 3's millions, that was one understated reply!

pragmatist

[quote=ceka]One of the holiday visitors where I used to live turned out to be one of the publishers who'd turned JKR down - I had to ask: how do you feel about that now? He said - you win some, you lose some
To the tune of (then) Books 1 2 and 3's millions, that was one understated reply! [/quote]

Aha - perhaps you should have added "Not omniscient then ?" but you maybe too nice to say it !

Dwight

Not necessarily a loss, P. The version she sent to that agent could have been an early one, hopelessly short of publishing readiness. This is the perseverance that published authors talk about: you get rejected: you work out why and fix it, even if it means re-writing the whole thing. If JKR had presented HP and the Philosopher's Stone as it turned out in the end to ANY agent, they would have bitten her arm off. It's the last but one agent (out of twelve or thirteen submissions) who may have felt that they just missed something.

dorothyd

are you sure, Dwight? what if they felt it didn't have market value after all? I mean, look how many turned down the Beatles, and goodness knows how many other 'horror' stories there are out there! Everyone makes mistakes, cannot see in the work what others see, it could be that person really seriously did not think it worth following through, no matter how it read. The duke's book was rejected by about 50 people, maybe more, of whom half were agents.

If you look at it logically,
'what? a book about a boy wizard? what rubbish. send it back.'
You can hear it, if you shut out the HP hype that has gone on since ... ignoring the books, as I have, you can look dispassionately at it and say but of course it was rejected. As with my books, it needed to be read by someone with a certain degree of imagination and the nerve to take on something different, and that is not found in every agency, more's the pity, or we would have more variety on the shelves than we do.

Red

There will come a point when you could rewrite your MS ad infinitum, and still it will be rejected, and not necessarily because it's complete codswallop. Perfectly well written, amazing novels are rejected because they're just not 'commercial' enough or don't suit the flavour that particular month. Then of course, on the flip side, you read a lot of crap on the shop shelves and wonder just how on earth they got accepted, because some are so dire.

Dwight

[quote=dorothyd]are you sure, Dwight? what if they felt it didn't have market value after all? [/quote]

You may be right, Dorothy (you usually are). JKR was finally taken on by Christopher Little (I think it was), who may have seen the germ of the breakthrough her books could become in her mixed up MS, suggested wholesale changes to her and helped her to edit her way to the final version. This is a likely scenario, especially in the light of the fact that some of her later HPs were turgid affairs, double the length they should have been if it was a good story that was wanted. They passed muster, I suppose, because HPs fans wanted much more of the magic, adventures, descriptions, quidditch and all the rest. I think she's overrated.

Jealous? Who, me? ;)

dorothyd

I'm not jealous, she got lucky but I don't read them or attempt to watch the films or understand the premise of them. I let it all float past me. I've got history to write and that's more important to me!

casey

My understanding of JKR is that she was taken on by Bloomsbury - a publisher. One of the bosses at Bloomsbury gave the ms to his daughter to read. She was the one who convinced her father to publish it. First print run was very small and overseas rights were sold for peanuts. Correct me if I'm wrong - anyone?
Also - her success came via word of mouth. Childen who read the books (my nephews and neices included) in the early years recommended them to friends and the success grew from that, not from PR, publicity or huge discounting by the publishers, who didn't expect it to do well.
Again - if anyone knows different???

dorothyd

that's how I remember it, Casey.

Carol

That's similar to what I heard too, Casey.

Van

There was a big story in the Sunday Times last week, all about HP. Apparently, the ms was sold to Bloomsbury for just £2500.

ceka

I think the first print run was only a thousand (which is why first editions are worth so much)
Word of mouth was definitely the shifter!

casey

Which I think proves that Agents and Publishers don't know the market as well as we are led to believe. They are all looking for the next 'big thing' but if it landed on their desks and jumped up and down saying 'buy me buy me', they wouldn't recognise it.
It's the book buying public that make best sellers, not the publishers or agents.

Stirling

[quote=casey]Which I think proves that Agents and Publishers don't know the market as well as we are led to believe.[/quote]

I don't think that's fair Casey.

No-one knows what is going to be a bestseller. Not agents, not publishers, not booksellers, or even the book buying public.

Agents do know what is happening inside the publishers, and what has a chance of selling. Agents and editors have the ability to pick up some fantastic books. No author became what they are without a fantastic agent and/or publisher.

Debut novels get pulled out of the slush-pile everyday. Just look at our Col, plucked out from the slush pile by a top New York agent. :D

Carol

But still waiting for the publishers to recognise his great writing sadly...:(

Stirling

There's a reason that stage is known as The Second Circle of Hell. :D

ceka

[quote=Stirling]Just look at our Col, plucked out from the slush pile by a top New York agent. [/quote]
To be fair, Stirling, Col was never in the slush pile. His work was noticed on the TKnC forum and he was invited to send in some of his work - so Nat Sobel was (eagerly) awaiting the work.
Anyone know how the Frankfurt Book Fair went? Col's not said anything ... I'm hoping there is something to be said!

Stirling

[quote=ceka]To be fair, Stirling, Col was never in the slush pile. His work was noticed on the TKnC forum and he was invited to send in some of his work - so Nat Sobel was (eagerly) awaiting the work.[/quote]

It wasn't commissioned though. More a sophisticated version of the slush pile. He was querying agents at the same time also.