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Paying for publication

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  • boredrobotsboredrobots
    edited March 2016
    Been reading all about this debacle this morning.

    $12,500 to make a loss! Awesome business model.

    And as for his "trailers"! $1000 and THIS is what you get...

    Sharkman Book Trailer - Steve Alten

    Mwuahahaha!
  • LizLiz
    Oh. My. God.

    And also very exploitative (it sounds like) of artists - "After brainstorming different concepts, we’ll select from a pool of dozens of artists who will submit covers. While the author maintains final say, our production team will offer our years of experience to help you determine what design might sell best."

    I expect that pool will not get any payment unless they are chosen. This is not a good business model for artists, and is very telling of what sort of quality you are likely to expect.
  • Baggy BooksBaggy Books
    I doubt there is a 'pool'. They're trying to impress unsuspecting folk.
  • Phots MollPhots Moll
    I assumed they'd use stock libraries. If they really do intend to ask dozens of people to submit work for each single job that would be very unfair.
  • Tiny NellTiny Nell
    As the author of the article says, 'Jesus on a honey badger'!

    Never heard of that 'publisher', but I would have checked them out and immediately dismissed them. Can't understand why people get taken in like this.
  • Baggy BooksBaggy Books
    Lack of experience mainly. I often talk clients down from the ledge - before they've jumped off/signed up to some ridiculous scheme/scam.
  • CarolCarol
    I agree with Baggy.

    People don't believe that someone offering them their 'dream' is out to scam them, and only want to get as much money as possible by doing the least work- if any. :(
  • happy_authorhappy_author
    edited March 2016
    I agree also, nobody should ever pay a publisher to be published. As baggy mentions, lack of experience, but often not people just hope they have the next best seller and can't see the scams. I have had many emails over the last year with people asking my opinion. I am tempted to reply, but do not answer for fear of one day my comments may come back to haunt me by the person who's email I replied too.
  • CarolCarol
    I think the less aware may sometime confuse the paying to be published, with what they hear about self-publishing and needing to buy in editing services and a good cover. If they don't understand how publishing works they can think it's normal to pay...

  • datco2014datco2014
    Some of the vanity publishers - do they still call them that? ? Are incredibly slick and I can see how easy it would be to get taken in. When I was trying to get my first book published in got emails from some of them and they sell themselves really well and often there's no clue that they're not a fab publisher looking for the next J K Grisham!
  • happy_authorhappy_author
    edited March 2016
    Trouble is datco, when you get a publisher that offers traditional contracts to some,but then asks others to contribute, it does tend to get people's hopes up. If a publisher is well known for only asking for contributions to be published then at least you can give them a wide birth, as you know where you stand. But when one hears of a publisher who gives traditional contracts, but then also offers contribution contracts or as some like to say a partnership contract, these do get the person thinking they are good and their book just might do well if they part with their money. (I am sure many are)
    I read and hear lots of complaints from those who have been asked to contribute and they flatly refuse and are a appalled at the idea. Yet you never read or rarely hear from those who have paid and their book has not fared well; is it because they feel foolish for parting with their money, as I doubt many never recuperate their outlay they paid to the publisher?
  • Baggy BooksBaggy Books

    Yet you never read or rarely hear from those who have paid and their book has not fared well; is it because they feel foolish for parting with their money, as I doubt many never recuperate their outlay they paid to the publisher?
    I read and hear about them regularly.

  • Mrs BearMrs Bear
    These companies work on the theory that novices think publishing is like other areas of retail. If you want a pair of trousers, you go out and buy them. If you want a computer, then you buy one. So if they offer to flog you a publishing package at whatever price they care to name, you think you should buy it, partly because you can, and it worked for the trousers and the computer, after all. Fork out your cash, get what you want - simple.
    The novice really doesn't understand that there's a vast mark-up on that package, and that what he pays is 90% profit for the company and only 10% worth it to him. He thinks what he pays is all for his benefit, because he gets the item he wants to buy. He's so excited that he goes ahead blindly, not pausing to read the small print.
    He doesn't think of the times he's bought electrical goods which turn out to be cheap knock-offs, or the trousers that looked so good in the shop but fell apart a week after the first wash.
    He's trusting these people with one of the most personal things in his life, yet he doesn't read the contract. That's what these companies rely on. All the better if they have some reasonable names on their lists - the fact that those people didn't have to pay a bean to be published, whereas they're asking our man to fork out his monthly salary and more, is overlooked. 'Yes, I'm with the publisher of A B Cee, the famous thriller author!' Sounds good, doesn't it?
    'Smoke and mirrors' comes to mind.
  • happy_authorhappy_author
    edited March 2016

    Yet you never read or rarely hear from those who have paid and their book has not fared well; is it because they feel foolish for parting with their money, as I doubt many never recuperate their
    outlay they paid to the publisher?
    I read and hear about them regularly.

    I looked on Absolutewrite,YouTube and a few other forums and just found posts about being offered a contribution contract, I have not found any that say they have paid and are now unhappy. They seem to be few and far-between on these forums, perhaps if more comments on how unhappy people are once they pay, then it would stop many falling for the paying route?

  • happy_authorhappy_author
    These companies work on the theory that novices think publishing is like other areas of retail. If you want a pair of trousers, you go out and buy them. If you want a computer, then you buy one. So if they offer to flog you a publishing package at whatever price they care to name, you think you should buy it, partly because you can, and it worked for the trousers and the computer, after all. Fork out your cash, get what you want - simple.
    The novice really doesn't understand that there's a vast mark-up on that package, and that what he pays is 90% profit for the company and only 10% worth it to him. He thinks what he pays is all for his benefit, because he gets the item he wants to buy. He's so excited that he goes ahead blindly, not pausing to read the small print.
    He doesn't think of the times he's bought electrical goods which turn out to be cheap knock-offs, or the trousers that looked so good in the shop but fell apart a week after the first wash.
    He's trusting these people with one of the most personal things in his life, yet he doesn't read the contract. That's what these companies rely on. All the better if they have some reasonable names on their lists - the fact that those people didn't have to pay a bean to be published, whereas they're asking our man to fork out his monthly salary and more, is overlooked. 'Yes, I'm with the publisher of A B Cee, the famous thriller author!' Sounds good,
    doesn't it?
    'Smoke and mirrors' comes to mind.
    Mrs Bear is it only men who fall for these gullible deals? :-) Hmmm Smoke and Mirrors, sounds like a good novel tittle. You are right though the novice probably does not do the research and see's it as just another purchase, in which case buyer beware.

  • happy_authorhappy_author
    These companies work on the theory that novices think publishing is like other areas of retail. If you want a pair of trousers, you go out and buy them. If you want a computer, then you buy one. So if they offer to flog you a publishing package at whatever price they care to name, you think you should buy it, partly because you can, and it worked for the trousers and the computer, after all. Fork out your cash, get what you want - simple.
    The novice really doesn't understand that there's a vast mark-up on that package, and that what he pays is 90% profit for the company and only 10% worth it to him. He thinks what he pays is all for his benefit, because he gets the item he wants to buy. He's so excited that he goes ahead blindly, not pausing to read the small print.
    He doesn't think of the times he's bought electrical goods which turn out to be cheap knock-offs, or the trousers that looked so good in the shop but fell apart a week after the first wash.
    He's trusting these people with one of the most personal things in his life, yet he doesn't read the contract. That's what these companies rely on. All the better if they have some reasonable names on their lists - the fact that those people didn't have to pay a bean to be published, whereas they're asking our man to fork out his monthly salary and more, is overlooked. 'Yes, I'm with the publisher of A B Cee, the famous thriller author!' Sounds good,
    doesn't it?
    'Smoke and mirrors' comes to mind.
    Mrs Bear is it only men who fall for these gullible deals? :-) Hmmm Smoke and Mirrors, sounds like a good novel tittle. You are right though the novice probably does not do the research and see's it as just another purchase, in which case buyer beware.

  • Baggy BooksBaggy Books
    I suppose I hear and read more about them because a number of my clients have had their fingers burned - and need help rescuing a project and relaunching it.
  • CharliChalkCharliChalk
    I often talk clients down from the ledge - before they've jumped off/signed up to some ridiculous scheme/scam.
    I love the way you put it - so true!

  • CharliChalkCharliChalk
    I also
    These companies work on the theory that novices think publishing is like other areas of retail. If you want a pair of trousers, you go out and buy them. If you want a computer, then you buy one. So if they offer to flog you a publishing package at whatever price they care to name, you think you should buy it, partly because you can, and it worked for the trousers and the computer, after all. Fork out your cash, get what you want - simple.
    The novice really doesn't understand that there's a vast mark-up on that package, and that what he pays is 90% profit for the company and only 10% worth it to him. He thinks what he pays is all for his benefit, because he gets the item he wants to buy. He's so excited that he goes ahead blindly, not pausing to read the small print.
    He doesn't think of the times he's bought electrical goods which turn out to be cheap knock-offs, or the trousers that looked so good in the shop but fell apart a week after the first wash.
    He's trusting these people with one of the most personal things in his life, yet he doesn't read the contract. That's what these companies rely on. All the better if they have some reasonable names on their lists - the fact that those people didn't have to pay a bean to be published, whereas they're asking our man to fork out his monthly salary and more, is overlooked. 'Yes, I'm with the publisher of A B Cee, the famous thriller author!' Sounds good, doesn't it?
    'Smoke and mirrors' comes to mind.
    They also work on the angle of age - I tend to feel that these packages are aimed at older novices, because to many people over a certain age the internet, let alone Kindle publishing, is daunting and time consuming and just plain offputting.

    This blog here:

    http://topublishornotto.blogspot.fr/2011/02/ye-gods-you-want-how-much-self.html

    sets out the kinds of services vanity presses offer at vast expense when you could do it yourself within a few minutes. Younger people wouldn't be daunted by self-publishing a book from the technical aspect, but I know a lot of retired expats around here either don't want to do it, or have employed a (younger) friend/neighbour to do the 'techy' stuff, even the easy stuff. That's what sells it.

    Give it another generation or two and there won't be so much a market for these scams and they will die off.

    Best thing to do is keep your publishing rights and your marketing contracts separate from each other. At least that way, if your marketing company fails you can dump them and still take your book with you.
  • LizLiz
    edited March 2016
    I think it's mostly worse than 90% to the company and 10% to the author - 100% of the author's money to the 'publishing' company, they pay themselves to edit etc (if they do any such thing) as it's all in house, and the author, as their book is likely to be terrible or not well-produced, get nothing, because it won't sell, certainly not enough, and so they'll never get their money back. They'll be in negative equity. The percentage promised to the author is unattainable.
  • happy_authorhappy_author
    edited March 2016
    . removed, as multiple post as it does sometimes.
  • Mrs BearMrs Bear
    h-a, I knew as I wrote it that I should have put s/he, his/her all the way through, but I couldn't be bothered. Take it as read that my posts are non-gender specific unless otherwise stated (or obvious).
  • happy_authorhappy_author
    I Did know that Mrs Bear, but thought I would have a bit of fun win you ;))
  • CarolCarol
    Are you typing on the phone happy_author? I assume you meant 'with' not 'win'. :-\"
  • Baggy BooksBaggy Books
    Not that Mrs B wouldn't make a great prize!
  • LizLiz
    I'd choose Mrs B even over a big box of chocolates.
  • heatherheather
    How big?
  • Baggy BooksBaggy Books
    :O
  • Tiny NellTiny Nell
    It depends which is more pressing - the need for advice or the need for choccie. Of course, the ideal prize would be a large Easter egg with Mrs Bear inside.
  • heatherheather
    Better than Mrs Bear with a large Easter egg inside.
  • LizLiz
    Even one as big as Mrs B herself, heather. Because, let's face it, she is a fount of wisdom. I could use her wisdom to get more chocolate. I couldn't lose.
  • LizLiz
    (It wouldn't matter if she had chocolate inside, I could overlook that.)
  • Tiny NellTiny Nell
    No, Liz. That DOES matter.
  • Phots MollPhots Moll
    It'll have to be a big egg to get both Mrs Bear and her Easter bonnet in it.
  • Tiny NellTiny Nell
    Big eggs are good, PM.
  • Baggy BooksBaggy Books
    And a chick. We must have an Easter chick.
  • Phots MollPhots Moll
    And some bunnies?
  • CarolCarol
    And cake, lots of cake...
  • LizLiz
    Small chocolate eggs. But not in her cheeks.
  • happy_authorhappy_author
    Are you typing on the phone happy_author? I assume you meant 'with' not 'win'. :-\"
    No Carol, I have got a problem and don't know how to sort it out, when I am writing the cursor randomly jumps to another part of the page and then I have to delete it and start again, it is very annoying. I am using an Asus that has a touch-pad that is meant to only recognize finger tip control, so it is not me touching the touch pad with my palm. It has really set me back from writing as it happens nearly every time. I have been on google to try and solve the mystery but to no avail

  • CarolCarol
    That sounds like something isn't working properly.

    Have you look for an online manual for the device? You should be able to check the manufacturer's website for it.

    Some even have online chat services so you can explain the problem and either get the solution or get the issue passed to the technical department.
  • Mrs BearMrs Bear
    I'm doing a little Baloo the Bear-type dance, in my floral hat, while licking chocolate off my furry chops.
  • happy_authorhappy_author
    edited March 2016
    Will start a new thread with the question I just asked.
  • snailmalesnailmale
    And a chick. We must have an Easter chick.
    ~:>
  • doradora
    *clucks in*

    It's call 'le chic' they're doing it night and day.

    Apparently.

    *clucks out*

  • snailmalesnailmale
    Read this through.

    Has no-one advised the author on excessive use of adverbs and adjectives?

    I would never pay to get published any more than I would expect any one to pay good money for the crap wot I wrote.
  • Lou TreleavenLou Treleaven
    Happy, I have the answer as it happened to me! Download Touchfreeze. It stops your cursor jumping about when you have a touchpad and it's free!
  • happy_authorhappy_author
    Thank you LT, I have now downloaded Touchfreeze, and it has solved the problem.
  • Lou TreleavenLou Treleaven
    Yay! Just remember you need to click on it to activate it each time you turn on the computer (at least, I do).
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