Welcome to Writers Talkback. If you are a new user, your account will have to be approved manually to prevent spam. Please bear with us in the meantime
Hi Jenny
You're absolutely right about the mutual back-slapping that goes on in literary circles. It's colloquially known as 'logrolling', presumably as in 'I'll roll your log if you'll roll mine ...'
There was a most amusing analysis of the practice by Blaise Cronin in the winter 2005 issue of 'The Author'. Let me just quote the opening two paragraphs:
'You'll claw yourself with an impish humor that would charm the balls off a pawnbroker's sign.' So writes Frank McCourt of Helen Gurley Brown's 'Sex and the Single Girl'. McCourt is no slouch when it comes to doling out pre-partum praise; in the five years following publication of his bestseller, 'Angela's Ashes', he provided jacket puff for at least fifteen books. What McCourt doesn't mention, but Slate magazine does, is that Mrs. Brown's husband produced the film version of 'Angela's Ashes'. You scratch mine, I'll scratch yours.
Nothing new here. The practice of reciprocal blurbing, often referred to as 'logrolling', was exposed entertainingly in the pages of Spy Magazine during the eighties and nineties. The magazine regularly showcased authors who traded gushing reviews: 'A triumph of style' - Paul Theroux on Nadine Gordimer's 'The Conservationist'; 'His is a large, outrageous talent' Gordimer on Theroux's 'Chicago Loop'.
A fellow published author offered to write a glowing review on Amazon of my first novel - I'm proud to say I declined...
:P yeh i s'pose. everyone else ive spoken to who has read it enjoyed it. but they also agreed that it takes a while to get into. the point is though i wasnt getting excited and not getting that i-cant-wait-to-get-home-and-read-that-great-book-im-reading feeling. i was half-way through and wasnt into it, and if im not into a book by that point im assuming it isnt for me really.
How do you know when you're really enjoying a book?
My husband made us coffee but I was holding a Robert Goddard novel in my right hand (it was at the "all about to be revealed" stage!) and because I didn't want to stop reading I picked up the mug with my left hand. It tipped and spilt coffee all over the book.
The librarian was so impressed with my husband's fairly successful attempts to clean the book up and flatten the pages that she just returned it to the shelf without criticism!
Jenny, I had a clear out of my books at the weekend and Only in America was one that went to the library. Like you, I'd read the back reviews, and thought, 'Yay, this looks fun' - what a disappointment. Dull, cliched, too convenient and just not really very good. Shame really, the idea was there...
Mind you, I did actually finish it. A few years ago I would struggle thorugh anything in the hope that it might get better.
My resolve finall cracked and I realised life was too short to waste on rubbish when I started "Azur Like it" by Wendy Holden. I kept stopping every few pages to recover and groan. In the end, I couldn't take it. Couldn't care less about the characters, so there really wasn't much point.
Sweetpea - So it was rubbish all the way through? I'm glad I didn't persevere with it!
I used to like the Lovejoy books - but eventually I got fed up with him constantly "eeling" his way around and "making smiles". It's not a good idea to keep repeating euphemisms.
Mind you, the books have some good tips on how to spot fake antiques (and how to make them!).
Interesting point about dialect Amboline. Personally, I find novels written with extensive dialect very hard to follow, although have no problem with it when it is spoken in plays, films etc.
Written dialect seems to 'pull me out of the story' somehow. I think it was the dialect in Vernon God Little that made me give up reading it, as it was in "Paddy Clark Ha Ha Ha" by Roddy Doyle.
On Vernon God Little, I think it's one of those novels - like Lord of the Flies and Of Mice and Men - which shows how pointless it can be to try to draw arbitrary lines between 'literary' and 'popular' fiction. I read it and really enjoyed it, without once thinking it was a literary piece. I just thought it was a great story, with some fantastic characters, and the dialect was brilliantly handled.
Nenastew - you're quite right. Lark Rise to Candleford is just a long description of life in a hamlet. There is a little bit of story as the heroine gets older (her first job, first 'boyfriend') but basically it's description.
Carol mentions - in connection with novels by a writer you usually enjoy - that any author can have an off day, eg. when chivvied by a publisher to meet deadlines.
I believe one of the Harry Potter books is supposed to be significantly inferior to the others; in fact I think it was the good lady herself who admitted it in an interview.
But which one was it?
Don't hate me when I say I found nothing remotely enjoyable about The DaVinci Code. Couldn't believe the hoohah associated with it. Almost gave up several times but thought I'd plough on so I wasn't the only person on the planet who hadn't read it.
Lord of the Rings was an enjoyable read when I got past the fact I had to keep looking back through the pages (and the map on the inside cover) to work out where they were or who was talking. All those people named Eomer, Eowyn, Boromir, Faramir, Sauron, Saruman etc. heading Northwest or Southeast towards Erebor, Ardor, Mordor, Gondor. Oh good grief.
Island Girl, you wouldn't have been the only person who hadn't read the Da Vinci Code. Frankly, I can't be bothered (this is me being ultra-polite for Webbo's benefit), and from what I've heard, it would be a waste of time, anyway.
The Silmarillion by Tolkien. Read the Hobbit twice (cos it was a birthday present), read the LOTR. It was ok but The Silmarillion was utterly impenetrable! Dunno what that singer Fish saw in it.
Another failure for me was a book about Merlin by Tolstoy - not THE Tolstoy, one of his decendants. Why do these people stuff the pages with arcane words and florid descriptions. Can you imagine being trapped in a lift with them? (shudder)
I confess that I hate giving up on a book. Some I read because I feel I should - Frankenstein for example - but mostly because I want to visit another place in my head. Whether it's Hogwarts, Discworld or Maine it doesn't matter as long as I enjoy it and it makes me think. I will actively avoid certain books though (Da Vinci Code) because I just know...
I read the first few chapters of The Da Vinci Code, but it doesn't count because I never had any intention of finishing it. I just wanted to confirm my prejudices. That I did.
Tessa, it's confession time - I watched the adaptation of Gormenghast long before I read the book. The person who played Steerpike was one Jonanthan Rhys Meyers, and that just did it for me! Even the name Steerpike makes me go all unnecessary, now! The adaptation was actually genius, by the way.
dorothyd, this is a long thread and I am trying to read my way through what everyone has said, but I have just reached your comment on Midnight's Children, and by sheer coincidence I stopped after 2 pages myself. I think I read aloud in my head (which partly explains why I am such a slow reader) and I just couldn't handle this convoluted style. I was looking forward to a good read, but it would have been hopeless.
But why oh why did you give up on Crime and Punishment? Dark, I admit, but I enjoyed that one.
I was initially blown away by the whole magical realism thing, but after reading through layer after layer and generation after generation of misery, I decided when I was over 3/4 of the way through that I just didn't care any more.
Cloud Atlas by david mitchell, couldn't get past the first two chapters, and yet one friend has said that i should persevere with it!
Rushdie- Midnight's children, only managed to force myself to reach page 30.
Portrait of a lady- h. james gave up after 35 pages, nothing seems to happen. However his Washington Square is a really fine novel!
Anyone read Balzac- one of my all time favourite authors. Read Cousin Bette or Black sheep. Brilliant novels!
The only book I gave up reading was Gearge Orwells' 1984. It was just so boring I keep thinking that I should try and go back and have another go at it now that I am so much older and maybe a bit wiser - things may make a bit more sense but I just can't bring myself to do it!! I can't remember if I managed to watch the film either! probably scarred me for life!!By the way I loved War and Peace.
Gave up on 'The Business' by Iain Banks a few weeks ago, as I did 'Dead Air' by him a while back. I used to love his stuff up until his more recent books. Shame really.
Jay, you and I were thinking alike. I've had a terribly fallow period with books. Now, finally, reading Tractors and a thing called Nothing To Be Afraid Of by William Eaves (?).
I've lost count of the number I've given up reading. Call me a fusspot :O)
The Satanic Verses by Salaman Rushdie. And another one of his that I can't remember the title of. Has anyone actually read Satanic Verses? I know of several people who make a point of trying to read all the books that the critics rave over and none of them finished it. Didn't Rushdie just get a knighthood? Maybe its for doing something else.
Similar reaction to the Bone People by (I think) Colleen McCullough. Another book that nobody seems to have read all the way through.
Wasn't Stephen Hawking's "A Brief History of Time" supposed to be the book most bought and least read - because very few people could understand what he was talking about?!!
Jenny - I actually managed to get to the end of Brief History of Time, though I can't claim to have understood it all. I'm not sure that all of the concepts are capable of being understood. Theoretical physics just gets weirder and weirder nowadays.
However the book that stumped me was Roger Penrose's 'The Road to Reality', which I gave up on at page 71. The book claims to be the 'Complete Guide to the Physical Universe', but is packed full of maths. Absolutely impenetrable!
Human Traces - couldn't get into it, but enjoyed Birdsong.
A book about a Chinese policeman - can't remember what its called and book is at home so can't look it up, but maybe I just wasn't in the mood at the time and should try again some time!
Captain Corelli's Mandolin. I tried three times. Everyone told me to persevere, but I just couldn't make it. That's the only one I ever gave up on - I tend to force myself to continue, even if I hate what I'm reading.
Ha ha ha. What made me read Captain Corelli's Mandolin? I went down to the gym and a mate of mine was in there, on the exercise bike, with said book placed over the handlebars. She could not take her eyes off it. I thought well, if it's that good, I'll give it a go. I loved it.
Many years ago when I was younger I picked up "Anne of Green Gables". I couldn't get past the first two chapters they were so dull and I put the book down and moved onto something I thought would be infinitely more interesting. However, at my mother's insistence I tried again. Once more the first two chapters were a drag and I seriously considered giving up. However, my mother encouraged me, saying that something can always be gained from perseverance. I did persevere and went on to discover one of the favourite books of my childhood. I re-read "Anne of Green Gables" the other year and sure enough the first two chapters are still decidedly dull, but the rest of the book still fills me with fond memories. Since my mother taught me this lesson I have made a point of always finishing any book I start. Yes, some books take longer than others, and no, not all have the same satisfying conclusion that I experienced with "Anne of Green Gables", but I have taken something away from every book I've ever read. If I didn't like it I ask myself why? This can only help me avoid these same pitfalls with my own writing. "War and Peace" has too many characters? Then maybe the lesson is to not over populate our stories.
I must confess to a heinous crime.
Twenty or so years ago, when it wasn't so topical to be slightly creeped out by Scientologists, I desecrated a copy of 'Battlefield Earth' by L. Ron Hubbard. I did this with a sane mind and a very sharp pen-knife. I admit to being a bibliophile, (having been raised by a highly dedicated bookbinder of a father,) and therefore was frankly quite offended that somewhere a beautiful tree had suffered to produce such tripe.
This was not a book; it was a good place to hide a packet of ten cigarettes.
It took me quite a while to carve enough space for ten B&H through all those pages, and now in my adulthood I probably wouldnt bother I would deposit this misprint waste of a tree into the local paper re-cycling bin.
I still have the book, complete with hole and find it quite useful in its present form.
Comments
You're absolutely right about the mutual back-slapping that goes on in literary circles. It's colloquially known as 'logrolling', presumably as in 'I'll roll your log if you'll roll mine ...'
There was a most amusing analysis of the practice by Blaise Cronin in the winter 2005 issue of 'The Author'. Let me just quote the opening two paragraphs:
'You'll claw yourself with an impish humor that would charm the balls off a pawnbroker's sign.' So writes Frank McCourt of Helen Gurley Brown's 'Sex and the Single Girl'. McCourt is no slouch when it comes to doling out pre-partum praise; in the five years following publication of his bestseller, 'Angela's Ashes', he provided jacket puff for at least fifteen books. What McCourt doesn't mention, but Slate magazine does, is that Mrs. Brown's husband produced the film version of 'Angela's Ashes'. You scratch mine, I'll scratch yours.
Nothing new here. The practice of reciprocal blurbing, often referred to as 'logrolling', was exposed entertainingly in the pages of Spy Magazine during the eighties and nineties. The magazine regularly showcased authors who traded gushing reviews: 'A triumph of style' - Paul Theroux on Nadine Gordimer's 'The Conservationist'; 'His is a large, outrageous talent' Gordimer on Theroux's 'Chicago Loop'.
A fellow published author offered to write a glowing review on Amazon of my first novel - I'm proud to say I declined...
Thanks for "logrolling" - I'll add it to my mental euphemisms file!
My husband made us coffee but I was holding a Robert Goddard novel in my right hand (it was at the "all about to be revealed" stage!) and because I didn't want to stop reading I picked up the mug with my left hand. It tipped and spilt coffee all over the book.
The librarian was so impressed with my husband's fairly successful attempts to clean the book up and flatten the pages that she just returned it to the shelf without criticism!
Mind you, I did actually finish it. A few years ago I would struggle thorugh anything in the hope that it might get better.
My resolve finall cracked and I realised life was too short to waste on rubbish when I started "Azur Like it" by Wendy Holden. I kept stopping every few pages to recover and groan. In the end, I couldn't take it. Couldn't care less about the characters, so there really wasn't much point.
I used to like the Lovejoy books - but eventually I got fed up with him constantly "eeling" his way around and "making smiles". It's not a good idea to keep repeating euphemisms.
Mind you, the books have some good tips on how to spot fake antiques (and how to make them!).
Written dialect seems to 'pull me out of the story' somehow. I think it was the dialect in Vernon God Little that made me give up reading it, as it was in "Paddy Clark Ha Ha Ha" by Roddy Doyle.
Has everyone read "The Dreamhouse" by Rachel Hore by any chance? Anyone liked it?
Personally I couldn't get through it, full of clich
I believe one of the Harry Potter books is supposed to be significantly inferior to the others; in fact I think it was the good lady herself who admitted it in an interview.
But which one was it?
Lord of the Rings was an enjoyable read when I got past the fact I had to keep looking back through the pages (and the map on the inside cover) to work out where they were or who was talking. All those people named Eomer, Eowyn, Boromir, Faramir, Sauron, Saruman etc. heading Northwest or Southeast towards Erebor, Ardor, Mordor, Gondor. Oh good grief.
Another failure for me was a book about Merlin by Tolstoy - not THE Tolstoy, one of his decendants. Why do these people stuff the pages with arcane words and florid descriptions. Can you imagine being trapped in a lift with them? (shudder)
I confess that I hate giving up on a book. Some I read because I feel I should - Frankenstein for example - but mostly because I want to visit another place in my head. Whether it's Hogwarts, Discworld or Maine it doesn't matter as long as I enjoy it and it makes me think. I will actively avoid certain books though (Da Vinci Code) because I just know...
Anyway, he's here http://www.bbc.co.uk/drama/gormenghast/
Definitely dribble-material. Sorry Doc - nothing personal.
But why oh why did you give up on Crime and Punishment? Dark, I admit, but I enjoyed that one.
I was initially blown away by the whole magical realism thing, but after reading through layer after layer and generation after generation of misery, I decided when I was over 3/4 of the way through that I just didn't care any more.
Rushdie- Midnight's children, only managed to force myself to reach page 30.
Portrait of a lady- h. james gave up after 35 pages, nothing seems to happen. However his Washington Square is a really fine novel!
Anyone read Balzac- one of my all time favourite authors. Read Cousin Bette or Black sheep. Brilliant novels!
I couldn't deal with Jeanette Winterson's 'Gut Symmetries'though.
'Land Law' By Gray - don't need to give a reason why!
The Various Haunts of Men - Just aint doing it for me...
Sole Music - Not Prattchets finest hour...
Gave up on 'The Business' by Iain Banks a few weeks ago, as I did 'Dead Air' by him a while back. I used to love his stuff up until his more recent books. Shame really.
Rich
I've lost count of the number I've given up reading. Call me a fusspot :O)
Similar reaction to the Bone People by (I think) Colleen McCullough. Another book that nobody seems to have read all the way through.
However the book that stumped me was Roger Penrose's 'The Road to Reality', which I gave up on at page 71. The book claims to be the 'Complete Guide to the Physical Universe', but is packed full of maths. Absolutely impenetrable!
A book about a Chinese policeman - can't remember what its called and book is at home so can't look it up, but maybe I just wasn't in the mood at the time and should try again some time!
Twenty or so years ago, when it wasn't so topical to be slightly creeped out by Scientologists, I desecrated a copy of 'Battlefield Earth' by L. Ron Hubbard. I did this with a sane mind and a very sharp pen-knife. I admit to being a bibliophile, (having been raised by a highly dedicated bookbinder of a father,) and therefore was frankly quite offended that somewhere a beautiful tree had suffered to produce such tripe.
This was not a book; it was a good place to hide a packet of ten cigarettes.
It took me quite a while to carve enough space for ten B&H through all those pages, and now in my adulthood I probably wouldnt bother I would deposit this misprint waste of a tree into the local paper re-cycling bin.
I still have the book, complete with hole and find it quite useful in its present form.