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The Bard or not the Bard?

edited September 2007 in - Reading

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  • This item from the BBC web pages raises the question of did Shakespeare write his plays or was it someone else.
    Some prominent actors believe not.

    'Actors question Bard's authorship 


    Actors including Sir Derek Jacobi and Mark Rylance have lauched a debate over who really wrote the works of William Shakespeare.
    Almost 300 people have signed a "declaration of reasonable doubt", which they hope will prompt further research into the issue.

    "I subscribe to the group theory. I don't think anybody could do it on their own," Sir Derek said.

    The group says there are no records of Shakespeare being paid for his work.

    While documents do exist for Shakespeare, who was born in Stratford-upon-Avon in 1564, all are non-literary.

    In particular, his will, in which he left his wife "my second best bed with the furniture" contains none of his famous turns of phrase and it does not mention any books, plays or poems.

    Illiterate household

    The 287-strong Shakespeare Authorship Coalition says it is not possible that the bard's plays - with their emphasis on law - could have been penned by a 16th Century commoner raised in an illiterate household.


    The group asks if one man alone could have come up with his works
    It asks why most of his plays are set among the upper classes, and why Stratford-upon-Avon is never referred to in any of his plays.

    "How did he become so familiar with all things Italian so that even obscure details in these plays are accurate?" the group adds.

    Conspiracy theories have circulated since the 18th Century about a number of figures who could have used Shakespeare as a pen-name, including playwright Christopher Marlowe, nobleman Edward de Vere and Francis Bacon.

    "I think the leading light was probably de Vere as I agree that an author writes about his own experience, his own life and personalities," Sir Derek said.

    The declaration, unveiled at the Minerva Theatre in Chichester, West Sussex, also names 20 prominent doubters of the past, including Mark Twain, Orson Welles, Sir John Gielgud and Charlie Chaplin.

    'Legitimate question'

    A copy was presented to Dr William Leahy, head of English at London's Brunel University and convenor of the first MA in Shakespeare authorship studies, to be launched later this month.

    "It has been a battle of mine for the last couple of years to get this into academia," Dr Leahy said.

    "It's a legitimate question, it has a mystery at its centre and intellectual discussion will bring us closer to that centre.

    "That's not to say we will answer anything, that's not the point. It is, of course, to question."




    Actors question Bard's authorship 

    Sir Derek Jacobi and Mark Rylance (left and right) are in the group
    Actors including Sir Derek Jacobi and Mark Rylance have lauched a debate over who really wrote the works of William Shakespeare.
    Almost 300 people have signed a "declaration of reasonable doubt", which they hope will prompt further research into the issue.

    "I subscribe to the group theory. I don't think anybody could do it on their own," Sir Derek said.

    The group says there are no records of Shakespeare being paid for his work.

    While documents do exist for Shakespeare, who was born in Stratford-upon-Avon in 1564, all are non-literary.

    In particular, his will, in which he left his wife "my second best bed with the furniture" contains none of his famous turns of phrase and it does not mention any books, plays or poems.

    Illiterate household

    The 287-strong Shakespeare Authorship Coalition says it is not possible that the bard's plays - with their emphasis on law - could have been penned by a 16th Century commoner raised in an illiterate household.


    The group asks if one man alone could have come up with his works
    It asks why most of his plays are set among the upper classes, and why Stratford-upon-Avon is never referred to in any of his plays.

    "How did he become so familiar with all things Italian so that even obscure details in these plays are accurate?" the group adds.

    Conspiracy theories have circulated since the 18th Century about a number of figures who could have used Shakespeare as a pen-name, including playwright Christopher Marlowe, nobleman Edward de Vere and Francis Bacon.

    "I think the leading light was probably de Vere as I agree that an author writes about his own experience, his own life and personalities," Sir Derek said.

    The declaration, unveiled at the Minerva Theatre in Chichester, West Sussex, also names 20 prominent doubters of the past, including Mark Twain, Orson Welles, Sir John Gielgud and Charlie Chaplin.

    'Legitimate question'

    A copy was presented to Dr William Leahy, head of English at London's Brunel University and convenor of the first MA in Shakespeare authorship studies, to be launched later this month.

    "It has been a battle of mine for the last couple of years to get this into academia," Dr Leahy said.

    "It's a legitimate question, it has a mystery at its centre and intellectual discussion will bring us closer to that centre.

    "That's not to say we will answer anything, that's not the point. It is, of course, to question." '
  • Interesting stuff. Thanks for posting that Carol.

    Richard
  • This has been going around for years, and many books have been written on the various theories. The Earls of Derby or Oxford, among other aristocrats, have been suggested, as also have Francis Bacon and Elizabeth I.

    But this all seems to me to be a form of snobbery, suggesting that an ordinary guy (well, reasonably ordinary, as he did get to go to school and had what we might call a middle-class upbringing)  wouldn't be able to write such special works. Natural talent counts for nothing in this scenario (no pun intended).
  • Does it really matter? 'The play's the thing' surely. Not whether it was Shakespeare, the actor, or not. I disagree that theplays were written for the Upper Classes and the aristos. No other playwright of the time incorporated the workers like Shakespeare did. One has only to think of the delicious crew in A Midsummer Night's Dream with Bottom et al. The audience at the Globe was also made up of ordinary folk and the plays reflect the fact that they were written for all audiences - the change of language from the poetic to ordinary common prose depending on the character speaking was a reflection of the audience. I prefer to think that it was Shakespeare, the jobbing actor, who wrote the masterpieces. Moli
  • I got a bit lost in your opening thread Carol. I think you may have printed some of it twice (At least it hows I read it all!!!)
  • Sorry CH, it did get copied and pasted twice, I never noticed having read the piece first before I took the details.

    I believe that more than one person wrote Shakespeare's plays. After all could he really have turned out such long plays in such a short time.
    Perhaps he was doing the group writing thing, and he had the ideas, gave out the parts and then finished it to house style.
  • 'This is too bard, this nonsence about whether or not I wrote my plays. It's much ado about nothing or a midsummer night's dream' - email from William Shakespeare.
  • Balls to all this.  I have the VIP book about Shakespeare picked up at The Globe which admits openly that he collaborated.  OK, so he collaborated.  That does not mean he was some illiterate oik from the sticks who could neither read nor write, and as he was reasonably well educated, that gives him, by default, a decent knowledge of current affairs of the time, as well as classical literature.  It's good to question, but what if (one can only hope) one of us here turned out to be as famous as Shakespeare, then 400 years later people started questioning whether it was indeed that person who wrote the books/poems or whatever.  If it was me, I'd be pretty insulted, to tell you the truth.  And I think Shakespeare would give them all a piece of his mind, if he could find a way to do it from beyond the grave.

    Shakespeare was a genius who was not an aristocrat.  If people can't accept that, then whose problem is it, exactly?  Some of the people who have questioned his authorship I have a respect for myself (Charlie Chaplin being one of my other heroes), but that doesn't make them right.
  • 'Shakespeare was a genius - well said' - email from William Shakespeare.
  • Someone who definitely didn't write Shakespeare's plays:  Ernie Wise.
  • No, you're dead right, TaffetaPunk. Collaboration doesn't affect authorship. YouWriteOn, for example, is a collaboration of sorts, in that when you put up your work and a reviewer points out that something might be said in a better way, or gives an impression you hadn't intended, you might change it. This doesn't mean that all the reviewers wrote your story.
  • There is a book called "The Truth Will Out" that puts forward a couple of different candidates for anyone interested in reading more on this debate. However, I do remeber reading in WM a comment that suggested Shakespeare may have just used his imagination to come up with his plays and not needed to be a member of the Royal Court as some people suggest. In relation to the comment about Shakespeare's will, perhaps he was just altering his style for a different purpose. How many of us would consider putting dialogue or poetry into a legal document?
  • I've read somewhere that WS borrowed themes from earlier plays.
  • Just occurred to me - what would he have made of Talkback?!!
  • He probably would have made a play of it.
  • TB or not TB...
  • It would have to be a comedy!
  • Definitely, a comedy.
  • I would liken us to HAMLET.  In best R.Burton voice:

    Whether tis nobler in the mind to suffer
    The slings and arrows of outrageous fortune,
    Or to take arms against a sea of troubles,
    and by opposing end them?
    To die, to sleep no more, and by a sleep to say we end
    the heart ache and the thousand natural shocks

    Blah Blah verily blah.

    Bows,exits stage left to sound of single man clapping, probably the cleaner wanting to go home.  mwa  mwa luvvvies
  • Marc - Will there be another performance or was that it?
  • you hum it, I'll sing it deary
  • clears throat: (in the style of Branagh)  To die, to sleep; to sleep perchance to dream, aye there's the rub. For in that sleep of death what dreams may come when we have shuffled of this mortal coil.

    I also do Dylan Thomas by request.
  •           My tears are like the quiet drift
              Of petals from some magic rose
              And all my grief flows from the rift
              Of unremembered skies and snows.
  • I think, that if I touched the earth,
    It would crumble
    It is so sad and beautiful
    So tremulously like a dream

    (Clown in the Moon)


    Ahh,  I love Dylan Thomas.  (I live near his boathouse)
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