Why gay people don't read straight fiction

Jay Mandal

Jay Mandal

Why gay people don't read straight fiction ... Well, of course they do. But do straight people read gay fiction?

Here's Nick Alexander's views on the subject (just hightlight, copy and paste):

http://books.guardian.co.uk/news/articles/0,,2086847,00.html

and a little story about two penguins and a chick, bound to cause a bit of controversy over here:

http://books.guardian.co.uk/departments/childrenandteens/story/0,,2086371,00.html

and a few observations on animal behaviour:

http://environment.guardian.co.uk/conservation/story/0,,2085957,00.html

So do you read gay fiction? And, if not, why not?

Flick

The largest purchaser of gay fiction - male or female - is women! Straight women!! They have a curiosity about gay relationships - was the reason given by a gay friend of mine. I think that is true. I've read MM books  - I've read yours Jay - and a few others including Nick Alexander. I like books about relationships and MM relationships are something different to the norm for me, slightly different emotions and responses. BUT I have no interest in reading FF books. I have read maybe 3 books that deal totally with FF relationships, just because the books were supposed to be very good. I don't even like it as a side plot or story eg. Val McDermid, Patricia Cornwell. It just puts me off. I think it must be the sexual element. I find MM relationships fine, but I can't get my head round FF. I hope this doesn't make me sound bigoted. I have no problem with whatever sexual orientation people take but I don't want to read about women loving women.

dorothyd

I second that. I have a female writer friend who constantly asks if I have any second hand gay books around she can read.  Men prefer the FF, it would seem, judging by sales.

Kaz

Hi Jay & Flick,

I write exclusively lesbian fiction (I won't put you on my mailing list, Flick - joke) but I'm happy to read crime/ thrillers regardless of whether characters are gay/ straight, or somewhere in between - but that's a whole other debate!

I must admit, I have tried with some of my stories NOT to have any lesbian characters, but I just can't seem to do it. I guess it's just that, being a gay woman, I love reading about other FF relationships - at one time I got hooked on Silver Moon Books, because (and I hope this doesn't sound too derogatory) well they don't seem to take themselves too seriously.

I guess what I'm after is a bit of humour amongst the dark stuff and it doesn't matter whether my female detective is gay or straight, just as long as she is FANCIABLE.

Kaz

Hi Dorothy as well - just noticed you jumped in before me!

Flick

I think you've hit the nail on the head, there, Kaz. I don't fancy women so the FF thing doesn't work for me. I CAN fancy men in the MM stories even if they are unobtainable. I know I should just like the story (in crime) and not be bothered by the sexuality of the detective etc but I just can't. I don't mind the earlier Cornwells but I can't get on with Val D's books at all.

Amanda

never read any but mostly because i dont read anything romancy anymore.  it ended at daniel steel when i was a college!  i read some of Jay's write-ups on a web site.  they sounded fantastic. i would read anything that appealed to me, gay or otherwise. its the story that counts!

josiehenley

I’m finding this interesting. I read very widely, story, characters and setting all appeal to me when I’m choosing. I don’t prefer gay books or straight, but just books. Then again there have been times in my life where I’ve read gay books exclusively, maybe as a reaction against having very little gay social life and needing to feel part of a community. I’ve read some really crappy gay books simply because they are gay, and wouldn’t expect a straight person to do the same as they have more choice (unless it was a particular niche genre, maybe vampire books or something).

Then again, I’ve read some really brilliant books by gay authors that are not necessarily ‘gay books’, e.g. Val McDermid, Jeanette Winterson, Virginia Woolfe, EM Forster, I could go on. There are gay authors whose books are so brilliant that they make the move to mainstream popularity – I’m thinking Sarah Waters in particular (swoon, my hero). But perhaps this comes at a price? Do these authors feel they need to tone down their writing, introduce some token heterosexual characters or whatever, so that they will appeal more to the mainstream market?

There are quite probably authors who write ‘straight’ fiction who are not straight, but no-one would know from reading their work. And there’s the rub really in an argument like this. Just because I am gay and I am a writer does not necessarily mean that I am a gay writer. I write in quite a few different genres, and a lot of my writing is not ‘gay’ at all. And that’s not because I’m unhappy being gay or I don’t want to write gay storylines, because I do – but I want to write other stuff as well and don’t restrict myself, why should I? Though I take Kaz’s point, and I like the lesbian romances that are tongue-in-cheek (no pun intended).

About the penguins, I think it’s sad that there was an outcry about that book, considering it was actually a true story. Just goes to show what lengths people will go to in order to protect their children from the real world. Nature is nature, no-one’s going to say that the penguins shouldn’t have rights to bring up a child. They’re divorced now, sadly. Silo has gone off with a girl penguin. What a b**tard!

Amanda

i know this is flamingos not penguins, but did anyone else read the news report on the two gay male flamingos who adopted an orphan?

Flick

Why do you like Sarah Waters much? Because she's gay and a writer? Because she deals with gay issues? I read Fingersmith and though I admired the writing, I hated the story.

SilentTony

I guess this must really be classed as "gay themed" not gay writing. As somebody pointed out there are plenty of mainstream bestselling gay writers who are read by mainly straight readers.

I have read very little gay fiction and only then by accident. I found the pieces I did read to be either good or poor depending upon the writing and nothing else. I'm not a woman but have read novels whose central characters are women who have love scenes with men. Not much difference there in my opinion.

I also think it may be a minority issue. I would not really chose to read about the plight of migrant east Europeans trying to settle into a bigoted UK as much as I would never chose to read about a group of gay men living through the nightlife of Brighton. However if either had universal themes then I would be happy to pick up the book irregardless of the sexuality of the protagonist or central characters. We all live in a world of diversity so surely this should be reflected in literature.

I guess we all have literature that speaks to us as people whatever or whoever we are that would not have the same resonance to others. After all isn't this just genre?

Anyanka

While I don't particularly seek out gay or lesbian fiction, I would be more inclined to get into FF than MM if the story in general appeals to me. Which immediately rules out all romance (including hetero)! I enjoyed 'Sugar Rush' - about a teenage lesbian with a crush on her best friend - but would probably find a male twist on that less appealing.  But then I usually prefer female characters in all my fiction, for identification.

TaffetaPunk

I'm interested in people, and frankly, if they're out of the mainstream, I'm happy.  Whether characters are gay/straight/bi/something else really doesn't bother me.  The writing needs to be good, and whatever the characters' sexuality is really doesn't come into it.

It's the same with life generally, surely?  I really think mainstream is far less interesting than somewhere outside of that - the mainstream tends to repress people because they worry what other people will think.  I've got some of Sarah Waters's books, and I don't automatically think that people judge me when I buy them, and why should they?  Do I have to be a bank robber to read crime fiction? 

I've bought loads of Anne Rice's vampire books, and there's a lot of homoerotic scenes in her work.  I don't need to be gay to buy Anne Rice books any more than I need to be a vampire...

It's the story that counts, and whether or not you enjoy it should have nothing to do with sexuality.

Stirling

Which Val McDermid books contain gay characters?.  I'm a great fan, but can't think of any titles.

Try her Tony Hill novels or Fiona Cameron (Killing The Shadows is fantastic - and straight).  The novels that the tv series Wire In The Blood is based on are much better.  And the unresolved sexual tension between Tony Hill and Carol Jordan is just superb.

Thought: was it 'the wire in the blood' that you read?.  That was just one book, and the characters were minor ones at that.  Don't let that stop you missing out on a fantastic author otherwise.

Flick

I've read six of Val Ds. I can't remember now which one it was that annoyed me! But it was the last one I read and I just thought I'm not going to try her again. I think it was that I felt it was a gratuitous element of the book. Rather like Faye Kellerman always managing to insert some educative paragraph about Judaism in her novels. Maybe I'm perticularly sensitive to a FF thing because I just don't like to read about it.
I must have liked the other Val Ds otherwise I wouldn't have kept buying them and they are still on my bookshelf which is another indicator that I didn't hate them but I haven't touched the last few she's written.
There are so many excellent thriller/crime/suspense writers out there and she just doesn't do it for me now. I feel the same way about Rankin I'm afraid. I like to try something different. Writers like
PJ Tracey, David Wolstencroft, Mark Billingham, Mo Hayder, Cody McFadyen, Karin Slaughter, Jack Kerley to name but a few.

neil

Hollinghurst rules. OK.

Stirling

I agree that Val McDermid has gone off the boil (particularly since Wire In The Blood was televised).  Her last book about Wordsworth was atrocious, but I think you are refering to The Torment of Others, and I thought it was gratutious.  I will however, be buying the new book in August.

I'm reading an old Ian Rankin, and honestly it's amateurish, I prefer his newer work.

Didn't like Mark Billingham, totally devoid of tension.  I recommend Nicci French, but honestly I'm going off crime fiction, no-one is doing anything new.

Neph

Aww TP Im gutted I thought you were a vampire!!!

I don't mind what I read, as long as it's good.  I live in a little world that is dark and twisted and as there is always an undercurrent of homoerotica in horror I am used to it, quite like it to be fair.  I have to say though I feel at the moment that sometimes (probably straight) writers stick a 'gay' character in just because they can and its the 'in thing'. (no offense to anyone, as I dont care about anyones sexuality just an observation).

josiehenley

I agree, there is often a token gay character in otherwise ‘straight’ books, which is annoying. But at least it means we’re more visible than when we’re just ignored altogether. The reasons I like Sarah Waters are varied and I could easily write an essay on her work (I studied ‘Fingersmith’ while doing my MA). It’s not just that she’s a lesbian who is supportive of the lesbian literary community, it’s not just that she writes books with lesbians as main characters and is uncompromising about that. The main reason I like to read her books is that they are a bloody good read, that’s the crux of it.

She is a ‘literary’ writer, but also fantastic at plot and characterisation. She is the writer I aspire to be. The dual narration, the hunger for detail, the playful chronology, it’s all good stuff.

I read ‘Tipping’ first – years ago before it was made into TV. Then I read Affinity which was equally brilliant, but not sexual in content at all so very different to Tipping. Then when Fingersmith was due to come out I pre-ordered the hardback, something I very rarely do. We got Nightwatch as a pre-publication proof copy for reviewers – Alys reviewed it for Velvet, and I managed to read it too. So that was excellent!

amboline

I'm a straight man who reads some "gay literature" (both M-M and F-F). And I don't really see why there would be a big issue with it. Armistead Maupin's "Tales of the City" books, for instance, are superb on many levels: the sheer diversity of the characters and the degree of empathy they elicit; the compelling and at times un-put-downable nature of the main plot elements; and their function as a social chronicle. Patrick Gale has many of the same elements; his knack for creating strong, empathetic characters is particularly good. And my other favourite, Jeanette Winterson, would deserve respect for being one of the most ingenious re-imaginers of great fairy tales, regardless of whether or not her own sexuality colours the life stories of her characters. "The World and Other Places" is still the best book of short stories I have ever read.

Jay Mandal

Anyone bought Armistead Maupin's new book, Michael Tolliver Lives? There's an article in The Times Online about it (this was mentioned in another thread so it is a bit of duplication on my part) where I've added a totally shameless comment. I'm waiting for the paperback version to come out.

http://entertainment.timesonline.co.uk/tol/arts_and_entertainment/books/fiction/article1937813.ece

P.S. I think the word I judiciously omitted was 'idealised'.

SilentTony

Oh he's giving a reading from that book and a talk afterwards here in Liverpool next week.

Carol

Will you be going ST, or is it like many literature events we have around here, at times not good for writers with children?