Over promotion of a book on Talkback.

M. Welshman

M. Welshman

I've been reading the thread re Dan's book. Lively.  Noticed Neil's comment about another book being over promoted on Talkback.  No doubt a reference to mine. Got me thinking. I agree I've mentioned 'that book' a great deal over the last few weeks. And of course the initial thread was to make you all aware that it was around.  That done there was no point in continuing to plug it
as it was reaching the same audience. The reason for new threads re the ongoing publicity is that I thought Talkbackers might be interested in seeing how this unfolds.  After all it's a new experience for me and I'm still learning. I've always been interesting in hearing about other writers' experiences and learning from them. If I've overdone it, then my apologies. I'll stop.  I've no need to write them. Vainglory's not me.
Whatever, I've found this message board lively and interactive and the comments I've had back generous and supportive. I guess in any bunch of grapes there are bound to be a few sour ones.

PS. But it won't stop that pun...ishing thread <g>

brownfox

I don't think there's any need for apologies, MDW.  The news of your promotional activities, I'm sure, will be of interest and use to any other Talkbackers fortunate and talented enough to achieve your success.  Also full marks for modesty in not quoting your own Amazon reviews, which I believe have been as glowing as Dan's. 

sooz48

Everyone on here should be able to talk about their books. Isn't that the point of Talkback, support from fellow writers, not only over the bad times but over our achievements too? I am sure many Talkbackers like to read about the publicity and promotion that goes with having a book published, especially those, like me, who are still waiting to be published. I don't wish you MW or anyone else to stop doing this. I look forward to more.

Carol

The difference is that you and Jay and others consistently take part in other threads, not just those that promote your book.
And, as said your experiences are a good learning tool to the rest of us, so no apology needed.

josiehenley

I haven’t read the thread that you refer to, MW, but if there was a comment about people promoting their own books then it could equally have referred to you, me or Jay as we all mention our own books and publicity. I admit that I am quite a shameless self-promoter, although I obviously can’t speak for others! But I agree with people who’ve posted here that I think it’s ok to talk about our own work on this site.

We all participate in other threads, so the main reason for being here isn’t simply self-promotion but being part of a community. We bounce ideas off each other about what is good publicity and what works, and I think that’s what having a community of writers is good for. We can be supportive of each other (I’ve bought two books of Jay’s and your book – and heard this morning that it’s on the way hurrah at last!) but if we only sold our books to each other then that would be a poor sales record!

I’m really excited about all the things that are happening to me at the moment with my recent publication, and maybe I get a bit exuberant about it, so I’ll apologise if I’ve given the impression I’m banging my own drum. All the feedback I’ve had so far is that people want to hear about success stories, as inspiration as well as because we’re friends. Also, it helps to hear what each other are doing as it gives ideas. I’ve really enjoyed hearing about your radio interviews and your trip to Crufts, so please don’t stop.

By the way – I caught your bit in the WN this month as well. I’m hoping to send something to them about my Waterstone’s book signing last night. Still reeling from that actually, but I won’t go on!

Island Girl

MW, I think you're being a bit paranoid there, my friend. That 'mention' could have been about any number of books on Talkback as everyone wants to plug their own work - and does!  I would be neither embarrassed nor apologetic about that and would LOVE the chance to do the very same. More kudos to those of you who can.

Ahhhhh, one delicious day I'm sure it will happen and then my fine feathered friends, you will not be able to log on to Talkback without seeing my name. I will be SO in your face you'll be sick of the sight of my name. (If you're not already.) It will come to you, whispered on a breeze, in the sight of the steam rising up from your cup of warm coffee and even in the sound of the toilet flushing...Island Girl, Island Girl, Island Girl, Island Girl.

(All I have to do now is to write that blockbuster)

amboline

Absolutely. No apology needed.

MW, Jay, Josie, Moira, Morbid Maiden, and others - you all have every right to be proud of your achievements, and every right to share them on here. I've learnt an enormous amount by reading about your trials and triumphs. God willing, the time will come when I have something literary to offer the world - and you can guarantee that when that happens, I'm going to need to know how to get the breaks that you have managed to get. Not one of you has sat back and just let it happen; your success has been self-made, and from that point of view it's an encouragement and an inspiration to all of us.

As others have said here: Talkback is a community, not a collection of adverts. The support, wisdom, wit and practical know-how that you guys (yes, I know I've said "guys", oops...) continually offer to the rest of us, all over this website, makes it clear that you want to be a part of the community. MW, if we tease you for shoe-horning "Pets in Prospect" into every thread on Talkback, it is only teasing - it's good-natured, borne of admiration more than anything. I've never had the impression that you're just here to spam the place with adverts; and I think the one thread you did set up to advertise the book is entirely justified.

The irksome thing is when people appear, scatter adverts about their latest project, and then just disappear again. Those users clearly want nothing more than free publicity and are not interested in helping and supporting the community. We can be justifiably annoyed with them, I think. But equally, we'll have forgotten all about them inside of five minutes. You lot are unforgettable!

neil

Hi gang,
My point re over promotion was simply in response to dorothyd saying such tactics were 'not what this site is about'. It seemed pretty fair to point out, therefore, that compared with others, Dan had only made the tiniest reference to his new book - hardly a case, I'd have thought, of promoting it 'too much'. That is all.

Katy

MW, I think it's great hearing about the publicity work you've carried out to promote your book - you've certainly given me a few ideas for when mine comes out in the summer and I'm sure this applies to many other Talkback members as well. I feel the whole purpose of something like Talkback is to ask questions, share advice and share experiences - good, bad and esoteric alike! Without the sharing of success, there would be little point; a message board that only looked at the frustrations and the difficulties and did not celebrate the achievements of members would be a much more desolate place to visit.

I have personally gained a huge amount from being part of the Talkback community. Keep on sharing, keep on celebrating and keep on punning - you know it makes sense! All good wishes, Katy

Howard

MW, don't stop harping on about your book. Those of us who would love to break into print as you have done need your inspiration. We also learn a great deal from you and many others on Talkback about marketing etc. My only disagreemet with you Malcolm, is the pun..shing thread. Please stop! I don't have the time to keep up with it all!!!

sal

Don't stop. Even published writers need advice on promotions and 'what happens next' etc.

Tessa Tangent

No, please none of you who've had works published should hide your light under a bushel.  Honestly, as others say, what can WN, a website for writers, mention if not the successes along with the rejections and the "keep tryings"?

Here's a quote from me, having read MW's post about his radio interview.

"Rex sounds a brilliant little character!  What a great example of how to do my own PR later on... thank you."

"Anyway, I have a feeling about this book, MW, and when TT has a feeling about books, then listen.  It'll be a success and yes you should be preparing for paperback.  I wish you well with the next.... and well done!!"

It's been some years since my short stories were published and as the years go by my confidence has decreased somewhat.  I haven't sent anything off since then, so haven't had rejections either, rather a half finished novel I gave up on in a period of depression and only found the enthusiasm to start the one that had been swimming round in my head for some years, just over this last year.

I love to hear of the successes.  I need to know that success is out there as long as we persist and stay true to writing "what we know".  MW has been a good example of that, as have been the others mentioned.

Always good to hear the successful writers adding lively contributions to other threads, too.

Hear hear to most of the above contributers (said in my Cockney accent - 'ear, 'ear!)  Like IG, you'll be sick of the sound of me by the time this book makes it's mark, if not already! :O)

Do continue, MW, jh, Jay and anyone else who'd love to encourage this old writer out of her shell again.

Tessa Tangent

That includes "Shagger" Dan!!

M. Welshman

Oh my. What can I say.  Lost for words. That's some admission coming from a writer.  Truly amazing to read all the above comments and opinions. True I was beginning to get a little paranoid about whether I was promoting myself too much. As I mentioned in another thread there's a fine line between telling people about progress and then making them feel they've heard too much.  And I certainly agree about continuing to contribute wherever one can to the pool of experience, encouraging others to take the plunge...(sorry..dipping into pun mode; must see the doctor about this addiction).

Tessa Tangent

Or the vet...  Maybe you have mynah-itis!

Amanda

hi,  sorry if this sounds a little thick (i am new here) but it seems to me telling us all about your success and experiences is exactly what this forum is for.  congratulations to all that experienced success - dont stop telling us about it -even the sourest of grapes can be turned into wine.

M. Welshman

A nice thought Amanda re the grapes.  I'll drink to that.

josiehenley

While we’re on the subject of shameless self-promotion, I haven’t managed to get the photos on my web pages yet, but anyone who wants a sneak preview of me doing my ‘thang’ can have a look here:

http://www.josiehenley.net/images/writing/Huckleberrys_09-03-07.jpg

http://www.josiehenley.net/images/writing/Waterstones_13-03-07.jpg

M. Welshman

Reading Tracy's comments highlights another aspect of this  angst over self promotion That being the natural reserve inherent in many writers (and more so in Brits) who write wrapped up in a solitary world of their making.  Then when  their book does make it they are thrust out to promote it. It's quite an unsettling experience for many people not used to such exposure. And these days, unless one is prepared to push oneself and grab every opportunity to get publicity, the sad fact is that your book is likely to sink - even if the writing's tremendous and story  top -notch. Unless of course you are a 'celebrity'. Lynne Truss in the Sunday Times review last Sunday wrote a marvellous article on this topic whereby you almost have to become an actor or write a book with half-a-mind to making it one that can be read out at festivals. I've been learning this at my cost these past four months. It's staggering the amount of time and effort you have to put in to reap even a modicum of publicity. I've spent countless hours sifting through BBC Radio Station websites, reading presenters' CVs, listening to their shows, the times they are on, what their likes and dislikes are.  Then wittling these down to ones that I think might be interested in a pet related book. I remember striking it lucky with one presenter who asked why I had homed in on her from out of 10 other colleagues on her particular radio station. Simple. I had read that one of her interests was walking her dog. So getting published is only the beginning. Then the plugging starts.

Hippo

I agree with much of what has been said above - it's great to hear of others' success.  It gives us all hope and also provides useful information as to what to expect from the publishing process that we all hope to become part of one day.  Anyway, if people aren't interested all they have to do is move swiftly on to the next post - as we no doubt all do with any other message that doesn't grab our interest for whatever reason.

Nefertari

my thoughts too Hippo, those who don't want to read the threads re the published books can move on to something else on here. I like reading how people get on with their books as I hope to be in their position one day and it's all helpful feedback.

Jan

Just to add my support for all news.

Yes, we need a balance of achievements to compensate the weight of disappointment.

Information on actions that failed need solutions. Thus details of succesful strategies provide ideas for consideration. Diverse opinions, opposing views, controversial subjects, all shared for debate at the whim of individuals.

Each one of us posts our own interpretation, belief, thought etc., in context of thread topics. It is the prerogative of everyone else to agree, disagree or ignore.

What a good job it is that Neil posted his observation. A lot more has been shared that may well have been overlooked because of misinterpetation of his words.

neil

Thanks for that last sentence of yours, Jan. Much appreciated.
Neil F.

Jan

A pleasure Neil,

It is one of my pet hates, that people either mis-read or twist words to their own purpose.

In fact that now reminds me, I must post on the Grrrrrrr thread.

josiehenley

Since I posted ‘I haven’t read the thread that you refer to, MW’ I went back and read it, because I don’t like to talk about something I don’t know anything about. I agree that it’s a good thing Neil posted his comment, and it’s also a good thing Dan posted the original thread (and I’ve had a look at the book on Amazon). Anything that sparks debate and gets us talking about all of this writing business is useful, and that’s what we’re here for. None of the posts relating to this were offensive or attacking, but only stating our own opinions, which is how it should be.

When I joined this forum originally, it was to look for support and advice on how I should behave as a newly published author – how to conduct oneself at a book launch for example. I use every opportunity that I can to self-promote, albeit with a slight cringe, feeling that I’m being arrogant. The main reason I stick around here and keep on posting is because it feels like I’m among friends. I can chinwag and joke about and also discuss deeper issues with like-minded people, which I don’t get with my colleagues in work. The fact that it’s a writers’ site means that what I say will strike a chord with others and vice versa.

A lot of us may find that the things we write are not the cup of tea of others on the site, but that doesn’t stop us from sharing the experience of being a writer, having the book published or not, help and advice with all sorts of areas of writing. Maybe somewhere along the way we’ll find a buyer for our books, but that’s not the main incentive.

M. Welshman

Now, now Claudia. You will see from the responses from fellow Talkbackers to anyone's news albeit  just getting an encouraging rejection letter, that congrats and good wishes are very much the order of the day.  And on a friendly writers' newsboard it shouldn't be any other way.
I agree with JH that it's been good to have this debate.  I didn't expect such a deluge of thoughts when I opened this thread. But great to get such a flood of feedback.
The general consensus seems to be that one can beat the drum for a success as loud and as long as one wants to. Silencing it is simple. One click will do the trick.

josiehenley

congrats definitely. Always congrats. I think that some writers aren’t confident enough to post here until they are published or have some success, re MW’s comment on writers being shy and retiring (unlike me!). So often the new poster will talk about their book as a way of saying ‘hey, hello I’m here’ rather than ‘everybody look at me and how fabulous I am’ (although I’d say that’s equally valid given that everyone deserves a bit of limelight when they get published). If we condemned them for posting a success story as their first post then I think we’d quickly give the impression that we’re a group of cliquey gripers.

neil

The problem here, Claudia, is that there has always got to be an initial posting - a sort of 'look at me', if you like. It's whether that initial 'look at me' is developed into something more substantial that actually matters.

Tessa Tangent

Quite so.