Show not tell

Lanky Lady

Lanky Lady

Does anyone else find this as difficult as I do? I've been advised that my writing contains too many descriptive passages and that those passages should be contained within thoughts, dialogue and action.

It's especially galling as it only seems to apply to new writers. Established writers seem to 'tell' and get away with it. (Oh dear, that sounds like sour grapes and it's not meant to be!)

lucyg

I seem to have the opposite problem - I can bring in dialogue and action, but then when I read through, it seems as if I don't have enough descriptive passages. Mmm there must be a happy medium for both of us!

Jan

Not sure it's so much "new writers" but more likely "established writers" have found their niche, including agent and publisher attuned to that particular style.

Don't become demoralised Lanky. I am sure past authors started as they meant to continue. Thomas Hardy (for one) produced reams of description, interrupting character action for whole chapters, I don't think he was orginally an accepted author.

Helen

Hi,

I also struggle with this - I think it would be good to get a balance. So if you decide to describe something, maybe think if that can be described through a character instead. I read somewhere that it would be fine to have some descriptive passages but maybe not too many.

At one point, I was getting confused with narrative and 'telling'. I know that narrative is all the bits which is not dialogue or action, but at times it just sounded like it was 'telling' - maybe it's just me. :-)

Lixxy

Has anyone noticed the marked difference in this between British and US writers.  British writers seem to have more dialogue and less description and vice versa for the US.  Maybe the publishers have something to do with it?

DEE

A US writer, commenting on one of my efforts on another site, said, "You British writers don't talk down to your readers."  Maybe that's because we don't overwhelm them with descriptions.

When I've been doing my reciprocal reviews, I've found that the US writers often carefully separate out action and dialogue from description and storyline background. I think 'show not tell' means not doing this. By bringing stuff into the action, you have to describe what the characters notice, remember, feel etc at the time and would want to tell someone about - and you have to use the words they would use.

I think the characters driving it is the active ingredient. Even if it doesn't go in the action, it brings life into the description (and it probably makes it easier to see how to fit it into the action).

Myself, I approach this with the attitude Khruschev brought to Communism: "You must always try; you don't have to succeed, but you must always try."

Carol

Everything that's been said is true. I'm like Lucyq, dialogue is great, you can't confuse my characters, but there is never enough description. So that is something I'm working on.

Hilary James

Yes, show/tell's a real balancing act!
I'm into memoirs at the moment, and they have their own problem.  Because I can see the ready-made scenes so vividly, I sometimes forget that the reader can't, until they're described!
One thing that often helps for me is to concentrate, in the 1st draft, on describing the scene as well as I can, and not hone the dialogue & action yet.  Then, in the 2nd, I try to get the action & dialogue to convey as much of that description as they reasonably can (crossing it out in the 1st draft as I go).  Any description left in the 1st draft, that I still need, then gets inserted into the 2nd draft, at the most useful points.  Then, when editing it for flow etc, I'm free from that nagging feeling of having forgotten some necessary detail.
Seems a long way round perhaps, but it actually cuts down dramatically on my number of drafts (they used to go into dozens for some chapters!).

Lanky Lady

Thanks for all the suggestions, that's been a great help. I think I'm getting better at it...

TaffetaPunk

I find description is easier if I show it through my character's eyes - and often, breaking up the dialogue between herself and someone else,  she'll roll a cigarette, gaze out of a window, or something similar.  I can always see her, though, and that's the most important thing, I think - I let her tell the story, and go with what she wants.  She's a very extroverted person, and very animated - and she gets easily excited.  For me, that's the easiest way to tackle description.

Jay Mandal

Odd. I used to be able to see my characters, at least some of the time, but now I seem to hear them instead. This probably accounts for the fact that people say the dialogue's good, but what do my characters look like!

Dianne

I have a post it note stuck on the front of my working book of which I stick on my laptop when using it.  It says 'Use all senses - see, feel, hear, taste, smell.'  It helps me remember not to tell but to show. 

Schumi

I try to show when I am writing, but sometimes it just sounds contrived. I believe there are some things you can't show.

The five senses are very important, but I was wondering how many ways there are of describing them? I find myself starting with 'She saw' or 'She heard', and when I read it back to myself, it looks like I am just slotting information in rather than it coming together as a story. In other words, it doesn’t flow as I would like.

TaffetaPunk

JM, I do hear my characters, as well as seeing them.  My main character at the moment wears all sorts of colours, has dark auburn hair, and chain smokes rollies - she's easy to see and hear, so it's easy to describe things the way she experiences them!

Jay Mandal

Which reminds me ... Many people say they write their characters' life histories before they begin their story/novel. I don't even think of a name, they're all called XXX, YYY and so on (not just 'Y' so that I can use the computer's search and replace facility later). In other words, I have only a vague idea as to what my characters get up to when they're chilling out/at work etc unless it's relevant to the story. It's the relationship between them that draws me.

Carol

So your character's past hasn't had an effect on how they are in that story? I find that my characters begin to take on a past life, so even if I don't know everything about them, I will know how they will react to a certain situation, and if a particular problem from their past is going to play a part in how the character is at the end. Without some idea of why they have become who they are, I think your chacter could be a bit too flat, no matter how good the writing and story is between them.

Jay Mandal

I've actually been wondering if anyone would be interested in co-writing something. This would get round my problem of all-dialogue-no-description. I've also got several flash fiction pieces that might be better as short stories; and short stories that might be better as novels. Anyone interested?

Schumi

That sounds interesting Jay. What is it your writing at the moment?

Jay Mandal

I'm finishing a novella and hoping to write some flash fiction and also to edit a short story. I write mostly gay romance, and you'll find examples of my work on Wild Child Publishing; The Independent Gay Writer; and BeWrite (there are extracts from my books on the latter, as well as some short stories and some forum One Word Challenge flash fiction). Hope Webbo doesn't mind my plug! Let me know if you're interested, and I'll find you something to work on!

Dianne

I've always been advised to write a character profile of all the main characters and I must admit it's been invaluable.  I'm dreadful at remember what colour someones eyes are, how old they are etc.
I was also advised to try to think like the character so that you know what they are like inside out.
Writing down likes, dislikes, strengths and weaknesses brings the characters alive.
I'm probably only telling you what you already know but it helps me.

Dianne

I've always been advised to write a character profile of all the main characters and I must admit it's been invaluable.  I'm dreadful at remembering what colour someones eyes are, how old they are etc.
I was also advised to try to think like the character so that you know what they are like inside out.
Writing down likes, dislikes, strengths and weaknesses brings the characters alive.
I'm probably only telling you what you already know but it helps me.

TaffetaPunk

I knew my character pretty well before I started writing, but that's because she was a minor character in the previous book.  I didn't know everything about her, it just kind of came out as I got to know her better.  She's a very outgoing person, and she let me know her quite well - not that she told anyone else in the book; just me :)  I was often having conversations with her inside my head as I was writing it, but not about the plot - we'd discuss different things.  That way, it was like talking with an old friend.

Jay Mandal

Writing Magazine (Feb, page 31) has a competition which asks you to write a piece of character description. How does this square with the 'show, don't tell' doctrine?

Hippo

Jay, how on earth did you revive a thread from March last year?  I started reading it with some interest and it was only a long way into it that I realised the first posting was 16/3/06, not 16/1/07, as my mind had translated it!  I'm sure I won't remember threads a year from now, let alone be able to find them again...  Mind you, yesterday I didn't know what day it was and on Tuesday I sent an email to a friend which I closed with 'have a great weekend'.  What year is it, again?

Jay Mandal

I thought there'd been a thread on the subject. I did a search and found it.

Schumi

I still don't fully recognise the difference. Both forms of writing can be effective. If I spent my time worrying about showing a telling, then I'd never pen a word.

The only example I would present to someone who insists that telling is wrong is Mr Somerset Maugham. He tells all the time e.g. beautiful this, wonderful that. And in my view, it's more effective than anything else I have ever read.

There is a deep, short minded flaw to the argument in my view.

josiehenley

I often see my stories in my head as if I were watching a film, so when I come to write it, it’s as if I’m simply relating what I’ve seen/heard rather than inventing something new. So there’s a lot of showing, but also I can slip into telling!

I recently had a critique back for a story I’d written for Chroma which had more sexual content than I would usually have written. Sex scenes are always difficult to write, but the editor was very complimentary. One of the things he said was that I should use all the senses, because I’d described what people sounded and looked like, but not what they tasted like or felt like to touch. I also missed out a lot of visuals in favour of the action (e.g. describing the backgrounds of settings). The editor said that if I put a bit more of this sort of description in then he’d be interested in printing my story.

josiehenley

Thanks Dorothy - I'm halfway through already. V enlightening!

btw, my full name is Josephine so it's a bit strange seeing it in print like that!

Carol

Very promising,now you know what you need to work on.

josiehenley

Yes, it’s probably the most promising feedback I've had so far for a story. I’ve previously either had stories rejected with ‘not for us’ sort of feedback or accepted with hardly any corrections. Here I have something concrete to work on and hopefully produce a publishable piece at the end.

Jay Mandal

http://veinglory.8.forumer.com/

Josie, you might be interested in the above site.

josiehenley

thanks!