How sexually explicitshould you be

Crazy Horse

Crazy Horse

I expect the full work by flick will be pretty explicit. but how far should you go??? Would a detailed assage cvering the whole action make the work less appealing to the publisher, lesss saleable to th4e public  ??  We are way past waves crashing on the beach but what is no the norm nd what is "beyond the pale"? Is reader gender significant in this

NarnieB

You're going to hate this old chestnut but it depends entirely on the story that you are writing. Would explicit scenes fit into your book? Or would they stand out like a ... sore thumb? Jackie Collins has been eye watringly explicit in many (most?) of her novels but the novel I'm currently reading (The Time Traveller's Wife) manages to include a few racy moments but otherwise leaves the rest up to the imagination (so far anyway).
Chestnut two is: Who is your target audience? I understand that one of the Mills and Boon imprints includes some pretty naughty stuff but I haven't read any and can't say how naughty.

I can't quote statistics but based on my own reading experience, I don't believe that there is that much of a gender divide over such issues.
Speaking purely personally, I don't mind either way if it is well done.

Betsie

I think it depends what genre you are writing, and your publisher.  Some publishers publish it, some don't. 

Jay Mandal

Got it! It took me a while, in view of the subject, but then I realized it wasn't some sexual practice I'd never heard of. Passage, without the p! Almost as good as Canal Street without the C.
One professional who read my short stories said there was too little sex in them. So I put some in. The next said there was too much. My previous books are in Amazon's 'romance' category, as will be my next one, due out in the autumn. I did wonder if it should be classified as 'erotic' instead, but as the word 'sex' appears in the title, I hope no one will be upset.

Carol

As sex appears in the historical romances I read, and want to write myself- the advice is not to let it read like pornography. Sex is about emotion,not just the mechanics of putting A into B.
But as said, genre has an influence.
Very interesting book, that might help clarify your thoughts: The Joy of Writing Sex by Elizabeth Benedict.
I'd add, that if that is what your characters would do, and the way they do it, then okay.
There can be humour in sex too.

Flick

I think you can go as far as you want BUT not into paedophilia. I feel uncomfortable when I read about women looking like children or school girls. Its a no-no for me.
The most shocking book I've ever read was American Psycho. The sex/violence scenes made me gasp out loud. But I have to admit in one of my thrillers the first page has a graphic violent/sex scene. A woman hanging in a warehouse who has her tongue cut out and er inserted somewhere. Another of my thrillers also started with a very violent sex scene - homosexual murder - and I had the comment from a paid for crit, that it was gratuitous. And you know, when I looked at it again - it was. I think I was trying to shock. It WAS very shocking but maybe not in keeping with the rest of the book. So I got rid of it.

Carol

Sometimes subtle can be as powerful as blatant, it just depends on how you use the words.

Carol

One bit of advice I read, that I think is very true, and Bud proved in with his last comment.
If you don't feel comfortable writing a sex scene, then the reader will see that in your writing. So leave the scene at the door-so to speak.
You can work round it.

Betsie

I think it's one of the most difficult things to do - you either end up using twee euphemisms or someone will compalin it's too graphic.  Getting it right is very difficult.  Years ago at our writers' group we set ourselves the task of writing a sex scene - all but one chickened out by writing about animals or insects 'doing it'.  I think the main difficulty was that we'd have had to read it aloud. 

If you put it in your novel you'll just have to cross your fingers that your granny doesn't read it!  (only joking) or am I?

Deb

I once tried to insert sex scenes into a book that was already finished because I thought it would have more chance of publication if it was a bit naughtier. It didn't work at all. I hated doing it and ended up taking them all out again.

I think it's true that, first off, you have to write to please yourself, and only write to please your editor/publisher within your own boundaries. I now know that I could never write really racy books, no matter how 'in demand' they were or how much money I was going to make.

But that's just me. I know my limitations :)

On the question of gender, I think it's more a question of genre and what the reader expects.

Susie6

I remember reading an interview by Toni Morrison and she said that she tries to write sex scenes metaphorically, so each person can take what turns them on out of the piece. She said that everyone has their own idea of erotic and if you are less explicit it allows the readers own 'fantasies' to be foregrounded.
It sounds good but is hellishly difficult to try and write!

dannii1893

I'm glad you asked this question because its been playing on my mind also! I do feel comfortable writing a couple of sex scenes into my storyline... as I am trying to write a novel which is based on my life. It fits basically because it happened! And as my book is about my life I don't see why I shouldn't put those bits in, in a way it would almost be missing out a vital part if I didn't! Although, then I worry would it be marketable?!

  My character/me who is narrating the story, is quite an open person and she has a habit of speaking what's on her mind.. and explaining things through her view point. So I feel it would be important to tell of her sexual experiences in the same way. However, I'm trying to be as suttle as possible with certain things, which I feel might be too graphic.. and so instead have hinted. Does adding sex scenes affect your sales in a negative way (say if you're targeting a varied audience... not just a Mills and Boon one?)

  I'd be interested to know!

  Dannii

Carol

Some years ago, a friend of mine said that the sex scenes she was writing in her book only worked because she had been able to use them in a humerous manner between the characters involved.

Grannylonglegs

Write what you know?  Most of us have been there, got the t-shirt!
If sex is relevant to the story, go for it.

Patty

I have found that a failed attempt is much more interesting to write than reality stuff.  Anything from a phone call to the virgin-heroine biting his wrist will suffice.
I love you all,
Patty

Crazy Horse

Thanks folks, even Jay & Tessa For all the replies. My reason for asking the question was that the relationships and tensions between characters often stem from sexual interudes. Whether we like it or not these tensions are often more poweful when love and emoton play little part in the event.. Without fairly graphic descriptions interplay between characters becomes unclear.

Crazy Horse

I feel too many authors are coy about writing explicit sex scenes yet this is a large slice of our personality. If a book is about a jockey then the more detail about horse racing the more we gt to know the.character. A purely pornographic novel would only give a limited insight. Any activiy that is pleasurable a exciting must surely improve the narrative? As a very old man I can look back (hopefully forwad) on glorious, bizarre, wild erotic events that have in part made me who I am. Surely these events should appear where appropriate in my novel? Yes? No?

TaffetaPunk

It still depends who you're writing for.  Some people don't like much more than suggestion - almost as though what you leave out makes it sexier.  I certainly think so, anyway.

Jay Mandal

It's a tricky one, depending so much on the readers themselves. If the author handles it sensitively - assuming it's not an out-and-out piece of erotica or more - then many readers would be comfortable with it even if it went beyond their usual boundaries. If it's treated with a degree of humour, then that might also make it acceptable to a wider readership.

Flick

Write what you're comfortable with. That is what will shine through. If you think it sounds right, then it probably does. In the end resort, if a prospective publisher doesn't like just those bits, they would tell you. Unless you disgust them in the first paragraph!!

Vel

I agree about the Elizabeth Benedict book. I found it very useful and highly recommend it. One of the pieces of advice is: a sex scene should be about sex and something else. In other words, there should be 'more to it' than just two people in bed together.  In my current project - which is quite sexually and violently explicit - a particularly mixed up young woman asks her partner to tie her up before they make love.  He thinks she's into S&M, but in reality she's scared of how she'll react and what she might do.
If you're not the sort of person who could write a scene of an explicit nature, I think it would be a waste of time to try.  However, those scenes should be completely relevant to the storyline and true to the characters, just like any interaction in writing fiction.

Tomboy

Reding this topic has made me rethink how I am going to write my thriller which involves paedophilia but I think I am going to have to be pretty subtle about it.  I think it might be a real hum dinger all the same as it involves a few rotten apples in the police force involving the death of a social worker whose husband is the leading'character's colleague wrongfully accused of the crime when in fact he was visiting his elderly mother in a residential care home. He was nowhere near the scene of the crime but his wife has uncovered a suspected paedophile ring. I don';t want tospoil the story but there are a lot of strands involved with criminal incidents, bullying a female junior officer in CID. 

Jay Mandal

Why is it that, when you write about sex, everyone thinks you've done it? No one thinks a crime writer is a serial killer!

Crazy Horse

Once you have learned the fact that your partner's pleasure is the most satisfying elment your horizon expands to the unlimited view. writing about relationships I feel it is important t know how people behave physically towards each other. Sex should be something glorious not the nudge, nudge  hints, maybe I am wrong, I usually am

Carol

I don't see the point of gratuatious sex in books. Sex is an elemental aspect of human nature; it can be about love, intimacy and a bonding between two people (whatever their gender)or it can be about power, control or manipulation.
The important thing is that we, as writers ,portray it as it relates to our characters and their personal motivation, rather than it will spice up a poor story  or it's expected.

Carol

Very true TT. I think that is the answer to such questions- 'you've got an imagination, haven't you?'-I'll remember that for future use.