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Do you write "try and" or "try to". The latter seems more logical, though a little formal depending on context. A quick look on the Internet suggests that "try and" dates back to the 17th century, so it's not as if it's a modern corruption.
Comments
If the phrase is followed by a verb the surely it would have to be 'to' - try to run, try to cook, try to write etc.
Try and cook sounds wrong.
I got a blackboard rubber bounced off my head as a child for using 'try and' (In the days when kids knew who was boss in the classrom).
But then, as I keep saying to my parents, my spoken language is something to be desired, considering I have A's and A*'s in English Language and Literature and I'm published...
I can remember having a heavy blackboard rubber thrown at me for something at school too. I wonder if any teachers put a kid's eye out doing that?!
I wrote a very strange piece of flash fiction the other night, broken, disrupted sentences, more like random words strung together. That being could not have said 'try to' it would have had to have been 'try and' - if I had written it in.
Nothing wrong with 'try and cook those eggs' when spoken and some dialogue might demand that. Remember Jamie's thread on whether incorrect grammar is permissible for a character ... as I said, depends on context. Every time.
Oh by the way, I go with 'try to'.
Blimey, English is complicated isn't it? I don't know how anyone learns it as a foreign language.
Yep, them's the ones...
"Try and" may be found occasionally eg "if you don't succeed at first, try and try and try again". Three separate actions involving energy and effort.
But as a substitute for "try to"? Is that colloquial/ dialect?
Tell you what gets my goat. "I'll take it off of you". Take it FROM. But if you must use the ugly OFF, don't made it TWICE AS BAD by adding OF. Is it a Londonism/Bournemouthism? That's where the culprits I know spent their ill-used time in years gone by.
He sure did.
I can remember a teacher hitting me on the head with the heavy base of a stool (I was messing about, but even so her reaction was over the top). These days a teacher could probably get prosecuted for doing something like that, and quite rightly!
One day I was late for a lesson and I walked along the empty corridor banging the two hardback books I carried together like cymbals. It made a smashing din but the noise attracted the attention of a fearfully stern English teacher who came out of his classroom to investigate. He ordered me across and I approached in great trepidation for he was a terror. He took the books from me.
"That's an interesting noise, Young," he said, "let's see what it sounds like with your head in the middle."
And I got walloped in stereo.
I know that people complain that teachers cannot inflict any physical punishment on pupils these days but I think some of their methods are best consigned to the waste paper bin.
That was an incredibly stupid thing for a teacher to do because of the damage it could have caused.
Talking about this kind of thing, have you read the short story called Galloping Foxley by Roald Dahl?
Do we ever hear of teachers making this complaint or is it people who have no idea of what teaching is like ? I can not understand anyone who has real teaching in their soul even considering physical punishment no matter what the misdemeanour.
Physical punishment is a pre planned action which is completely at odds with teaching good behaviour and respect. It must have been awful for Headteachers to have a line of people waiting to be beaten. Surely no one would choose to do this.
Sorry for that little rant and diversion. ;)
As has been said, "try and" is ok in speech and in certain contexts but "try to" I would say is the correct use.
In dialogue, if your character is not likely to use correct grammar, then by all means use 'try and', just as you might use 'would of'.
That doesn't make it right, though.
And with "off of" I'm with Aeschylus. Interestingly, in Welsh the standard equivalent for "off" is "oddiwrth" which combines two prepositions, "oddi" and
"wrth" which basically mean off and of respectively.
(Ex linguistics lecturer - no, I wasn't sacked :) )
(We had a needlework teacher at my school who once threw a pair of scissors at a pupil. Honest to God. Imagine if that happened nowadays. Nothing happened back then - fortunately she missed.)
http://dictionary1.classic.reference.com/help/faq/language/g43.html
And of course I agree that 'would of' is much worse - I was trying to think of another common grammatical construction that is not (strictly or otherwise) correct, but would sit fine in dialogue.
What did leave a mark, a very deep scar, was the pschological punishment, and those have stayed with me for the last 30 years and still affect me to this day. Physical marks go away. Psychological ones remain forever.
It worked out OK for him because after that he had to spend RE lessons tidying the toy cupboard - his interpretation of "tidying" was playing with the toys!
You're absolutely right.Pix. There is a difference between spoken and written English. Spoken English is much less formal - that's why some people have trouble writing dialogue, because they're writing,so they make it formal, but it has to 'say'.
As for 'try to' or 'try and' I instinctively feel that 'try to' is more correct. Rosalie's suggestion to use 'try and' if there is another 'to' nearby is sound.
I had something similar, though in secondary school (R.C) when I questioned the biology teacher how she could teach us about evolution straight after daily morning mass. To be fair she equated the whole Bible in terms of Darwin's theory so well in great detail to every single follow up question that I asked that I applauded her and the class followed. I then told her as the bell rang that my plan avoid our biology test worked. She was a good sport and laughed it off, with double homework just for me though.
Glad it worked out for him in the end. IMHO teachers who talk about creationism positively, even in RE class, should be sent home and told not to come back!
Agreed.
For the record, I have decided to ignore these theoretical grammar fiends.
There is also a rule for the use of might and may
Great advice Dorothy.
Did not ask come. Did not want come. Do not like here. Do not like people. Do not like planet. Air heavy -- make sick. Ship damaged. Cannot go home. No ship come for me. Need own food. Food here make sick. Do not like language. Words hurt. Need something stop words come me.
[quote=Jamie] 'Bobby-Joe had to try and shovel the shrimp' [/quote]
I make no apology for differing from the opinion of others on this one, Jamie: I think this version sounds common. Is there another way to avoid two 'tos'?
Bobby-Joe tried shovelling the shrimp down before Betty returned.
or
Bobby-Joe forced himself to shovel down the shrimp before Betty returned.
or
Bobby-Joe became a vegetarian before Betty returned so didn't need to shovel any shrimp down .
I prefer the last one lol.
Bobby-Joe is doing two things here then. He is trying and he is shovelling shrimp.
In other words...
Bobby-Joe was forced into making an effort and shovelling the shrimp
"I've never seen my old man even once that I can remember. He's either been in the shovel or on the trot and I only know what he looks like 'cos a copper showed me his picture in the Hue & Cry."
I assume this is rhyming slang - shovel and pick - nick.
I imagined him using a spade! I'm also amused and delighted that Bobby-Joe and his shrimp-shovel have now been used repeatedly in a semi-serious argument! :D
Is the story going to be published somewhere?
It's called The Blood Makes Me Whole.