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The Da Vinci Code: Finished it. 'Nuf said.
Hehe, no, erm...yes, well done Dan Brown for finding a publisher to print it but...really, what was all the fuss about? Please no angry comments, I do have admiration for the man, as I said, he found a publisher for it and his other works.
As for Angels and Demons I read that after The Da Vinci Code and thought I was reading the first draft of the DVC. Very poor indeed.
Angels and demons I thought bordered on the farcical, especially the closing scenes.
Did anyone read deception Point by Dan Brown?
If you did are you ok now?
If you did not please don't.
Predicatble, pedestrian, cliched and sorry to say but lazy. Enough of the good points though.....
'On Beauty' I found quite odd. I think Sadie falls into a trap that many GB writers fall into, that of trying too hard to sound (and seem) intelligent at the expense of the writing. Just my opinion, but it is something I see a lot more in GB Lit than any other nations Lit.
"I found the whole having-to-speak-in-front-of-the-class thing inhibiting. I always had things I wanted to say, because I knew no-one else would appreciate them".
No. You don't like the idea that someone else could and will disagree about your interpretation (which is the whole basis of literature), and that your argument will be weaker and you will lose the debate. So instead you come out with this literary claptrap that you are far too intelligent to lower yourself, because how on earth could A-level students possibly understand your far superior intellect.
I love a good debate, particularly over literature. I'm usually the one that tramples these literary snobs (and I enjoy it).
Not inclined to read any more of her work though, as urban writing ( like urban life) makes me claustrophobic. But you've made me curious so I'll take a look at On Beauty.
"You know when they say everyone has a book in them. This is it".
So I have never picked up a Zadie Smith book.
Before anyone gets hot under the collar, this is not my opinion, I have never read any of her books, and it was from a literature student.
We can be quite snobby when it comes to books. I hold my hands up to that one (I especially hate literary novels that think they are clever).
I think it was Stephen King who expressed surprise that we hold up Ian McEwan to be our guiding light in the UK while they fail to take him seriously in the US.
To me a good book is a good story told well.
I remember reading an article about the book 'Cloud Atlas' which described it as 'enchantingly nubile'. To this day I do not know what that can allude to. For the record CA is a good read if you are willing to plough through the first 2-3 chapters. I never did consider it 'enchantingly nubile' however.
On the other hand I have often read a King, McEwan, Rankin or even a Rowling and been richly rewarded for the time spent. I agree with the point regarding romantic novels. I am a man approaching 40 in a standard hetro relationship but I have dipped into Georgette Heyer and the like from time to time. Why not. I like to see where other writers are 'coming from', if that makes any sense. Branching out can give you ideas too!!!
I think Denis Wheatley summed it up when he stated that all his writing faults, he at least knew how to tell a story, and in the end that should surely be the aim.
(steps off soap box) :D
I completely disagree - the above phrase is entirely true if applied to Germany, where enjoying a book is seriously frowned upon, but I have always found British literature particularly rich with books that are intelligent, well-written and highly enjoyable. Almost all of Ian McEwan's work, early Iain Banks, Margaret Forster, Andrea Levy - just to name a few. (Zadie Smith is not on that list, as 'White Teeth' left me cold.)
Unlike some of the posters above, a good story is not enough for me - I find bad or even mediocre writing off-putting, and only tolerate it for my occasional crime-fix. Even there, it is possible to find detective novels of top quality, whether old Dorothy L.Sayers or more recent Ian Rankin.
There are so many novels out there with excellent stories, characters AND a great use of language. Why settle for anything less? The majority of readers do settle for much less, but personally - I don't get it.
Stephen King is actually one writer I cannot bear as I find his style overly descriptive and plodding, and his plots ridiculous.
I found some of SK earlier books to be overly descriptive and waffling at times, though I still loved them. I think he has produced some brilliant work in recent years though.
You are right a good story is not enough, but without it everything else is like scattered wreckage after a shipwreck.
DVC was like a Bond movie in a book. Fun, frivolous, a little bit eccentric in parts and, yes, I can see why people enjoyed it. If only for the puzzling parts and the Jesus enigma.
Alex Garland 'The Beach,' fab read!
fine writing, story, suspense and loads of humour!
Now, a few years back I really liked his books, found them to be great page turners, but this time I felt like i'd fallen off a log. The story was ok, no change there, but I felt it was really lacking something. After a while I think I discovered what it was. It was like a throwaway, fast-food type or read, compared to the previous books which had felt like a gourmet feast.
I agree, there has to be a good story, but I really look for so much more now in the books I read. Something to stretch me and entertain me in a different way.
Just my two pence worth.
Rich
"Women don't read/buy a book with a male protaganist. This could be a bestseller, but we will pass anyway".
I love reading Dumas, Dickens, Ian Rankin and Val McDermid; but I have yet to find that 'perfect' novel. I also agree with the comment about Stephen King. One day I will find that book, but I guarantee it will not be 'literary'. Literary books don't hold the monopoly on great writing that leaves you thinking 'you can't end it there, what happens next!".
A hundred years ago, Eliot and Dickens where writing for a mass audience, but they weren't trying to be clever. Being clever is my biggest reading turn off.
I like discussions on literature but i'm at a disadvantage for i have only read around 45 novels to date- some wit commented that they could tell from my writing!
However i have always found literary novels highly satisfying, not the ones that pretend to be clever. just started to read Hemingway for the for the first time, really good. Balzac is a genius, one of my favourite authors.
stephen king is my favourite author, and i am sure we'll look back in a hundred years and see his books as classic american literature, much as j.k. rowling will be seen as one of the greatest british authors of the 21st century.
i think if you're into reading solid, literary masterpieces, and enjoy giving your brain a good workout in your spare time, then great, go ahead and plough through silmarillion or bleak house.
if you want to relax, and let your brain have a little rest, read something less taxing. i've done both, and it entirely depends on my mood what book i reach for. i'm just about to crack on with reading harry potter again, in time for the new book!!
SK is also my favourite author and I regard him as the new Dickens. Very popular, quite a broad appeal yet will be viewed with a greater brevity in the years after his death.
I think this all comes back around to the idea of snobbish views on literature. Nothing stands on the merit of being labeled by the right people in the right way, only on its success as a piece of fiction. If it ticks all the correct boxes from story, to language, character, voice etc and was a jolly good read, then that is a good book. No matter what some of the broadsheets may want to tell you.
Agree about literary snobbery, but not so sure that Stephen King will be classed as great American Literature, surely that will go to Salinger or Kesey?. I read Misery, and I found the violence unneccasary (and you're talking to the woman who loves Val McDermid!).
At the moment I'm reading Ian Rankin's Knots and Crosses, after which I'm going to re-read The Three Musketeers again, I would love to write a screenplay for a new movie/TV adaption of it (without the slapstick humor of the version with Michael Yorke etc).
The other one was a film version of Lord of the Rings. Tolkien agreed to sell them the rights, they wrote a script and everything. When they went to his cottage he informed them he'd just sold them to somebody else sorry.
I have an idea floating in my head of writing a novel of Louis XIV's life and loves. The only thing is the level of research it will take, before I would start writing.
Why should the broadsheet reviewers' reflect what the 'general public' read? The general public are not the readers of the broadsheets. I for one be mightily peeved if I found reviews of Danielle Steele or Kathy Lette in the pages of the Independent.
Literature is not elected by numbers. Lots of people liking something is not an indicator of quality.
I know. I think something has been lost here because that is part of my point. All I have been saying is that there is room for trash as well as high brow books. Just because somebody tells you something is of no merit so don't bother to read it, to me stinks of elitism. All books are different and all genres too, there is room enough for it all to live side by side. I read everything I can and enjoy most things I do read.
If it feels good, read it.
ST, you have a great attitude towards literature, don't ever change!. I see too many people carrying a certain book to make themselves look clever, or make themselves feel intellectually superior.
I don't like chick-lit, but that doesn't mean I think I'm better because I read literary classics, and really I don't rate modern 'literary' novels against authors like Hugo.
When I started writing I thought that being 'literary' was more important than writing a story that people would love, and read over and over again. You know what?. It's all rubbish. I would rather be a Dumas than a Zadie Smith.
That was me if you hadn't guessed, talking about Musketeer novels again.
There is room for every novel to coexist with others, and they do. There is a little confusion here- if you condemn a poor novel/writer that doesn't mean you feel superior or are a literary snob. Who likes arrogance?
ST attitude is great, but there are several views on this forum equally good and they shouldn't change their attitude either.
I would rather write stories that stayed with my reader long after the last page, than give myself an ego trip. I have to read a lot of 'literature' for University so there is nothing better kicking back with the latest Val McDermid or re-reading The Three Musketeers.
I am quite happy to write without ever the chance of being nominated for the Booker Prize.
No but seriously, it is for the ego trip and the dosh!!
Its bin a long day at work, sos for the delay in replyin. I started out with the thought to make a quick million! How hard can writing be? Write a bestseller and bingo.
Then i got roundly rejected and there was no plan B. So people told me to call it a day- YOU are WASTING your time, is a phrase i heard often!
But by now i actually liked to write and i started to learn the craft and read novels! Then i thought i want to be a good writer, the best i can be- money and fame no longer mattered.
By good fortune i had my first novel published last year- i have yet to do one public reading, though many were the invites. I'm not ready for publicity yet, and the novel has been well received with a good review in the Independent.
Why am i botherin to write so much? Its because i've read some of your threads, and there is real steel in your voice, the type of determination that gets one published. Even though i also sense a lot of anger in your threads sometimes, this you should avoid if possible and remain focussed on your writing instead!
But no really, its about the DOSH!!!
Thank you so much for that wonderful comment!. Everything I have achieved seems to have been hard fought over. Even when getting a place at University that so many people take for granted, I seemed to have to work harder to get there (I spent four years with the OU, after leaving school with one A-level in Literature).
Good luck with your book. I hope you are right, and I do have the determination to get published. And as before, I am more than happy to work harder than everyone else to get there.