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Fifty Shades of Grey - Have we discussed this and I missed it ?
Interesting, although I don't quite agree with her interpretations of the text! The attempted rape she talks about really was just a drunken pass by a friend. And it's a bit unfair to assume that being a 22 year old virgin is implausible. And as for Ana being weak - she is the first woman to stand up to Christian and try to have a normal relationship with him. She refuses to sign the contract. She is the only one who gives him a run for his money.
She is right about the 'crap' and 'oh my' count though!
Also I hated all the replaying clips she put in her review... migraine alert.
Having just read that it reminded me of the comments that were being made about Twiglet at the time it was taking over our bookshops, the controlling male figure, the submissive female. These are both written by women who obviously need something they aren't getting......a life.
Not the first reviewer to see the person who wrote it knows naff all about nowt.
I've just popped back on here today because my ten year old son came home from school and asked me if I'd read this book as everyone at school was saying it was cool.
When I asked him how he knew about it he named a few boys who'd said they'd read the first chapter.
How does that happen? Ae parents so irresponsible they talk about this crap around their children? Or worst still, leave the crappy book lying around and children read it?
I thought parents who smoke in presence of their children were scummy enough but this ..... I despair.
While I agree about the possibility of the book being left lying around, at least they actually picked up a book and read the first chapter, even though it's crap writing.
[quote=dora]I'm just totally peed off that this stupid book exists and that so many stupid people are buying it it does actually make me really cross that such a stupid book and obviously THICK clueless writing is taking up everyone's attention ...[/quote]
Parents should definitely keep erotic books out of children's reach, as they should with any titillating material.
I think you just have to accept the book for what it is, guys. Sometimes you like a gourmet meal, sometimes you just want to stuff in a McDonalds even though you know it's full of crap. I like high brow, low brow, middle brow... anything that captures my attention, tells a good story and gets me engaged with the characters. OK, she's not the greatest writer. But the books were a fun read for adults that are into that sort of stuff. That's it, really.
With what has been said in other comments above, it occurred to me that this book probably doesn't have an age restriction for purchase, even considering its content. As far as I can make out from looking it up, there appears to be no restriction. (I will of course stand corrected if anyone knows for certain) I do think there should be a restriction if there isn't one, as the way I see it displayed in WH Smith and Waterstones, anyone under 16 could buy it with nothing said. The thought is horrific.
[quote=JohnWho63]that this book probably doesn't have an age restriction for purchase[/quote]
Well a few weeks ago, before work I was in my local HMV/Waterstones and they had a big display of 50 shades, (Before all the hype got way out of control.) with a sign on the cover saying 'NOT SUITABLE FOR UNDER 18+' so I'm guessing that there could have been some kind of questioning there. But now on their giant stand it has nothing, but then it's not in the children or YA section, which I guess could be a comforting thing.
As for me, I still won't read it. People at work, some my age if not older, were raving on how good it is and didn't understand why I didn't want to read it.
My reply was because I'd read better fanfiction.
My supervisor who is the same age as me said that that's what it came from.
Actually, it's wrong then, if the display "not suitable for under 18+" is no longer being displayed, in fact that's quite awful, and all it says is "we want to make money out of you sad lot and couldn't give a hoot (other words are available) how we go about making it"
I think the thing that really gets me, is how many people who've read this book with its lack of editing and inconsistencies believe this book is great writing.
It's makes it job at a writers' group helping newish writers improve, when you have books like this being touted as the best thing since sliced bread and pushed by reputable publisher's with editing errors still there...
Just back from a walk with my friend who is reading it. Or was. She's finished it and loved it.
Now this is a highly qualified professional with a very good education. For her it was a bloody good read and she wants me to buy her the next one tomorrow.
I've touched on a few of the comments TBers have made and she just shrugs. All she knows is that she enjoyed it. Pure escapism.
My worry would be for impressionable young teenagers who are just exploring their own sexuality - if this titillates them then they may be set up for a life of enjoying being hit, or needing to be hit as first sexual experience has a huge effect on what ome people find exciting later in life.
[quote=Liz!]I hope not many children get to read it. [/quote]
Earlier this week my son came home, was on the computer and out of the blue asked me if I'd read "Fifty Shades of Grey"
I said no and asked him where he'd heard about the book.
He said everyone in his class knew about it and they were saying it was cool.
Thick parents are either talking about it in front of children, totally oblivious to the fact their children have ears, or, they're taking their children to shops and buying it in front of them?
[quote=Liz!]My worry would be for impressionable young teenagers who are just exploring their own sexuality - if this titillates them then they may be set up for a life of enjoying being hit, or needing to be hit as first sexual experience has a huge effect on what ome people find exciting later in life.
[/quote]
yes Liz and this is what's annoying me about the way it is being paraded in shops, ignoring the fact children need to be protected, just in it for the money
[quote=Liz!]I hope not many children get to read it. [/quote]
I hope that NO children at all get to read it, as it evidently unsuitable. But I rather think from what's being said and seen by many people that some almost certainly will.
Depends what you men by children I guess. If teenagers are reading this I wouldn't worry. As they are either doing it in real life or can access real life people doing it on the Internet. So a bit of a bad book that actually requires reading wouldn't worry too much.
I certainly think its very weird to say 18+ last time I recall the age if consent is 16. Sure there may be some S&M but that's also covered by consent laws. So while children should be restricted from this sort of material I doubt it's actually doing any harm. It may ven bring more younger people and lapsed reader back to books or even to write them. Who knows?
[quote=Lou Treleaven]Although they shouldn't be on Facebook if they are under 13. Still too young to read FSOG though![/quote]
Some parents just don't seem to get it. A while ago, I visited a family to arrange the baptism of their second child, and was amazed to see their older child, who is just turned 5 years old, not only on the computer in their living room, but on Facebook. I tactfully mentioned that they should be 13 to be on Facebook, and the father said, "Oh it's ok, he's got his own account, and anyway we're always here." After that I got the distinct impression I'd crossed a boundary, and I said nothing more. However, subsequently on the day of the baptism, the mother said she had had a word with her husband as she was not happy with her 5 year old being on Facebook. This time, as she had opened the subject anyway, and I was on my own territory, I told her point blank that a 5 year old should not be on Facebook, or indeed any social networking site. Whether they have listened? I have no idea.
I don't know whether I'm just the exception to the rule or something, but I don't like Facebook, really. Much prefer other social networking, like Twitter and Tumblr.
As for 50 Shades, I've actually put my mum off reading it. I showed her an excerpt of it I found and said how it was bad writing etc and she agreed with me and that's why we've not read it.
Now if I was younger, and I didn't show mum any of it, she might have decided to read it to decide what it's all about, and depending on how young I was would depend what she's say to me.
But what I don't understand is if children are getting it, are they going to really understand what's going on? Because I know I wouldn't. But then I might be in another minority. I've only really just come out of childhood, because mum wanted me to be there for as long as possible, so I didn't grow up too quickly, which I think is the problem of today. I don't really know.
I can vividly remember getting a couple of books from the adult section of the library when I was about 12 or 13, both of which had sexual content and one of which was quite explicit, including the use of very strong language. (I could quote you from it now, so it obviously left an impression!) I can't remember if my mum knew what was in the books, but she must have taken them out for me, I suppose, as I only had a children's card.
I remember finding them quite fascinating and can't say it did me any harm (others may disagree!), but it does depend on the child. There is so much exposure to sexual ideas and imagery these days in the press, online and on TV, that I wonder if it would really make that much difference. Which is probably part of the overall issue.
My niece has just allowed her son age 13 to start using Facebook and now she has joined up herself so she can see what he gets up to. I am so glad I didn't have all this worry about when my two were children. I think parents have it hard now monitoring all this.
[quote=kateyanne]I think parents have it hard now monitoring all this.[/quote]
I can tell you that at least a few of the ones I've met with are so wrapped up in computer games or social networking themselves, that they don't monitor their children's online habits at all.
[quote=JohnWho63]a few of the ones I've met with[/quote]
How did you meet with them, John? Through an internet dating site?
There are also quite a lot of parents that do take an active interest in their children's habits and maintain standards, it just takes a bit more effort, t'is all.
[quote=dora]How did you meet with them, John? Through an internet dating site?[/quote]
I meet families in their homes when I visit them to arrange their children's baptism, and occasionally if its a funeral, although the people I meet then do tend to be mostly older, and the presence of children while we talk is statistically less likely. It's surprising what you learn about a family's life in an hour.
John kids can be on Facebook and only have access to the restrictions their parents put on. So if you do it correctly they will only see posts from people who their parents have made them friends with. There's a gap between something like Moshi Monsters and Facebook where kids will have to stretch across their feet. The same as letting them out on their own. There's an time when you allow it because you feel they have enough street smarts to do so. But how do they acquire those street smarts to begin with?
What I'm about to say isn't meant to be controversial, but as a real example of how we treat kids. A vicar may frown upon a kid reading something like 50 Shades, or even a child being on Facebook. But they will be fine with them reading one of the most violent books out there littered with incest and depravity. The bible. It's the same as some parents who will ban their kids from violent films but let them play violent games. Even if they appear tame like Office Jerk for example.
I guess my point is kids and children shouldn't have age restrictions placed upon them so rigorously. They should be allowed to develop as the parent sees fit. As Heather said reading those excerpts at 12-13 did her no harm and maybe helped her develop in many different ways. So yeah let's keep childhood as long as we can, but when the child grows faster than we hoped we have to let them explore and discover.
Maybe 50 Shades has done something good in bringing these debates into the open for honest and mature discussion.
'They should be allowed to develop as the parent sees fit'
That is the thing, some parents just aren't bothered and that's when the harm is done. Without guidelines children explore and discover with horrendous repercussions.
Well there's little that can be done about that. If things are so bad then you have social services. If they are lucky they have grandparents, family, parents friends who may give advice. I know some parents aren't bothered but let's all remember that's what it is, 'some' parents. Not all, not the majority and not the many. We also need to be careful about pressing our ideals and standards on other people too.
Just because we think something is the right way doesn't make it the only way.
I purchased this book shortly after it came out. I haven't even so much as read the first page. MY OH wants to know why. He's seen the response it's had on BBC breakfast!
I, on the otherhand, have seen so much negativity placed around this book, that I cannot bring myself (rightly or wrongly) to read it. I suppose I ought to ... but all I hear when I open up the cover page, is a barrage of comments such as 'badly written', 'cheap and nastly' and worst of all ... 'mummy porn'. I don't want mummy porn, but I do want to know how this woman created a monster of a marketing machine, and I do want to know what all the fuss is about.
Should I take the plunge and delve in, or leave it to collect dust along with my 1976 Wombles annual?
The publisher jumped on the advantage of printing copies of a book/releasing the e-book that already had a lot of word of mouth support, so the basic promotion was already done.
Comments
Liz! that's brilliant. Just sent it on to MNs.
She is right about the 'crap' and 'oh my' count though!
Also I hated all the replaying clips she put in her review... migraine alert.
http://i541.photobucket.com/albums/gg390/xXxOutOfControlxXx/50shadesofgrey.jpg
That's 50 shades of grey.
brilliant :)
Not the first reviewer to see the person who wrote it knows naff all about nowt.
I've just popped back on here today because my ten year old son came home from school and asked me if I'd read this book as everyone at school was saying it was cool.
When I asked him how he knew about it he named a few boys who'd said they'd read the first chapter.
How does that happen? Ae parents so irresponsible they talk about this crap around their children? Or worst still, leave the crappy book lying around and children read it?
I thought parents who smoke in presence of their children were scummy enough but this ..... I despair.
make that three SAD females, Stan
Irresponsible
scum
parents
I agree entirely that it shouldn't be read by a 10 year old.
You can regularly see articles and studies saying (boys especially) are not reading books, so it is a bit ironic that they are picking up this book...
Sorry Carol, I'm just totally peed off that this stupid book exists and that so many stupid people are buying it
it does actually make me really cross that such a stupid book and obviously THICK clueless writing is taking up everyone's attention ...
rant over
I'm OUTTA HERE
I agree wth you totally, Dora. :)
I think you just have to accept the book for what it is, guys. Sometimes you like a gourmet meal, sometimes you just want to stuff in a McDonalds even though you know it's full of crap. I like high brow, low brow, middle brow... anything that captures my attention, tells a good story and gets me engaged with the characters. OK, she's not the greatest writer. But the books were a fun read for adults that are into that sort of stuff. That's it, really.
She bought it because of the hype, but that isn't enough to keep her reading.
(Seen in a Sainsbury's store)
Is this what's called "encouraging a 'vibrantly' good 'rivetting' read"??? :-D
(You innocents may need to think about this one... ;-) )
:D
[quote=JohnWho63]anyone under 16 could buy it with nothing said. The thought is horrific.[/quote]
Agree absolutely - I was surprised the supermarkets were selling it, to be honest.
Well a few weeks ago, before work I was in my local HMV/Waterstones and they had a big display of 50 shades, (Before all the hype got way out of control.) with a sign on the cover saying 'NOT SUITABLE FOR UNDER 18+' so I'm guessing that there could have been some kind of questioning there. But now on their giant stand it has nothing, but then it's not in the children or YA section, which I guess could be a comforting thing.
As for me, I still won't read it. People at work, some my age if not older, were raving on how good it is and didn't understand why I didn't want to read it.
My reply was because I'd read better fanfiction.
My supervisor who is the same age as me said that that's what it came from.
So I said exactly, and I've read better.
Actually, it's wrong then, if the display "not suitable for under 18+" is no longer being displayed, in fact that's quite awful, and all it says is "we want to make money out of you sad lot and couldn't give a hoot (other words are available) how we go about making it"
It's makes it job at a writers' group helping newish writers improve, when you have books like this being touted as the best thing since sliced bread and pushed by reputable publisher's with editing errors still there...
Now this is a highly qualified professional with a very good education. For her it was a bloody good read and she wants me to buy her the next one tomorrow.
I've touched on a few of the comments TBers have made and she just shrugs. All she knows is that she enjoyed it. Pure escapism.
No doubt the shops that originally classed it as unsuitable for children do that too now as it's such a money spinner.
And let's face it, when there's money to be made why bother giving a toss about children.
My worry would be for impressionable young teenagers who are just exploring their own sexuality - if this titillates them then they may be set up for a life of enjoying being hit, or needing to be hit as first sexual experience has a huge effect on what ome people find exciting later in life.
Earlier this week my son came home, was on the computer and out of the blue asked me if I'd read "Fifty Shades of Grey"
I said no and asked him where he'd heard about the book.
He said everyone in his class knew about it and they were saying it was cool.
Thick parents are either talking about it in front of children, totally oblivious to the fact their children have ears, or, they're taking their children to shops and buying it in front of them?
[/quote]
yes Liz and this is what's annoying me about the way it is being paraded in shops, ignoring the fact children need to be protected, just in it for the money
I hope that NO children at all get to read it, as it evidently unsuitable. But I rather think from what's being said and seen by many people that some almost certainly will.
I certainly think its very weird to say 18+ last time I recall the age if consent is 16. Sure there may be some S&M but that's also covered by consent laws. So while children should be restricted from this sort of material I doubt it's actually doing any harm. It may ven bring more younger people and lapsed reader back to books or even to write them. Who knows?
I suspect, if usually non-readers, they wouldn't bother reading the book - just the passages with sex in.
My ten year old son is a child and he was talking about the other ten year olds in his Year 5 class.
I suspect parents also discuss it on Facebook and no doubt children will read these comments too.
Some parents just don't seem to get it. A while ago, I visited a family to arrange the baptism of their second child, and was amazed to see their older child, who is just turned 5 years old, not only on the computer in their living room, but on Facebook. I tactfully mentioned that they should be 13 to be on Facebook, and the father said, "Oh it's ok, he's got his own account, and anyway we're always here." After that I got the distinct impression I'd crossed a boundary, and I said nothing more. However, subsequently on the day of the baptism, the mother said she had had a word with her husband as she was not happy with her 5 year old being on Facebook. This time, as she had opened the subject anyway, and I was on my own territory, I told her point blank that a 5 year old should not be on Facebook, or indeed any social networking site. Whether they have listened? I have no idea.
As for 50 Shades, I've actually put my mum off reading it. I showed her an excerpt of it I found and said how it was bad writing etc and she agreed with me and that's why we've not read it.
Now if I was younger, and I didn't show mum any of it, she might have decided to read it to decide what it's all about, and depending on how young I was would depend what she's say to me.
But what I don't understand is if children are getting it, are they going to really understand what's going on? Because I know I wouldn't. But then I might be in another minority. I've only really just come out of childhood, because mum wanted me to be there for as long as possible, so I didn't grow up too quickly, which I think is the problem of today. I don't really know.
I remember finding them quite fascinating and can't say it did me any harm (others may disagree!), but it does depend on the child. There is so much exposure to sexual ideas and imagery these days in the press, online and on TV, that I wonder if it would really make that much difference. Which is probably part of the overall issue.
I can imagine it must be a nightmare.
I can tell you that at least a few of the ones I've met with are so wrapped up in computer games or social networking themselves, that they don't monitor their children's online habits at all.
How did you meet with them, John? Through an internet dating site?
There are also quite a lot of parents that do take an active interest in their children's habits and maintain standards, it just takes a bit more effort, t'is all.
I meet families in their homes when I visit them to arrange their children's baptism, and occasionally if its a funeral, although the people I meet then do tend to be mostly older, and the presence of children while we talk is statistically less likely. It's surprising what you learn about a family's life in an hour.
What I'm about to say isn't meant to be controversial, but as a real example of how we treat kids. A vicar may frown upon a kid reading something like 50 Shades, or even a child being on Facebook. But they will be fine with them reading one of the most violent books out there littered with incest and depravity. The bible. It's the same as some parents who will ban their kids from violent films but let them play violent games. Even if they appear tame like Office Jerk for example.
I guess my point is kids and children shouldn't have age restrictions placed upon them so rigorously. They should be allowed to develop as the parent sees fit. As Heather said reading those excerpts at 12-13 did her no harm and maybe helped her develop in many different ways. So yeah let's keep childhood as long as we can, but when the child grows faster than we hoped we have to let them explore and discover.
Maybe 50 Shades has done something good in bringing these debates into the open for honest and mature discussion.
That is the thing, some parents just aren't bothered and that's when the harm is done. Without guidelines children explore and discover with horrendous repercussions.
Just because we think something is the right way doesn't make it the only way.
I, on the otherhand, have seen so much negativity placed around this book, that I cannot bring myself (rightly or wrongly) to read it. I suppose I ought to ... but all I hear when I open up the cover page, is a barrage of comments such as 'badly written', 'cheap and nastly' and worst of all ... 'mummy porn'. I don't want mummy porn, but I do want to know how this woman created a monster of a marketing machine, and I do want to know what all the fuss is about.
Should I take the plunge and delve in, or leave it to collect dust along with my 1976 Wombles annual?
Well ... I thought I *would* read it when I bought it. But by the time I came round to reading it ... well, you know the dilemma!
http://www.fiftyshadesgenerator.com/